Upgrading to a much larger tank, any advice?

[Lemonhands]

Evening all,

I am getting my new Fluval Shaker 345l tomorrow, the biggest tank I have run to date is 80l. I am wondering if there is any advice that you have or anything I should consider before/whilst setting it up?

The tank comes with everything that is needed (filter, lights etc) and am going to transfer filter media from my 307 to the 407. I have ran tanks for years (but only actual aquascaping for a year-18 months), but not actually used aquasoil (but intend to here and going forwards). Will also be using an in-line co2 system.

I think that covers about everything, so if you have any hints/tips/advice, or anything you wish you'd known before setting up a tank drop your knowledge here. Let me know if you want any more information.

Thanks in advance

 

[KirstyF]

Without going into specifics, my tips would be:

Spend a bit of time thinking about flow and how best to set this up to suit your design plans and tank size. It’s often a bit trickier to get good flow to all areas in a larger tank and retro-fitting extra kit can be a pain.

Consider using DIY ferts if you don’t already. It’s way cheaper and the IFC calculator on here is fab.

Use cheap stuff (small/crushed lava rock for example) to create height if you want it, and then layer over with aquasoil. It will save you pennies you can then spend on more plants.

Don’t stint on initial planting, even if you just chuck in a bunch of cheap fast growing stems as space fillers to start with. You can swap them out for ‘lovelies’ later on.

Make water changes as easy as possible. You’ll be doing lots of that!!

And a general tip if it’s your first time with aquasoil….if you also plan to use areas of sand, spend time thinking about your transition areas, making sure you retain soil well, fill any gaps it may trickle out from etc etc…..This is one thing I would personally do better next time around as bobbles of aquasoil sitting all over the top of my sand drives me nuts (and clearing them all off is just a ‘mare in a big tank)

Have fun!! 😊

 

[Tom72]

Anything above 200 ltrs I would use 2 external filters to boost flow.
Check your lighting is good for plants, you might want to swap out the lights for lighting which provides a better spectrum.
Water change 50% daily week one, every 2 days week , every 3 days week 3 etc. test regularly for ammonia, nitrites and other parameters. As soon as it hits 0 get your clean up crew in.
Signs of algae and diatoms jump on straight away and up the water changes is a good idea. Use a bacterial booster for every water change.
Fertilise daily increasing dosage as plants grow.
Start with short lighting period 4 hours per day and increase as plants get more established.
Use easy category plants, fast growers and maybe floating plants to help absorb nutrients to compete with algae.
Be prepared for the tank looking a bit sad for the first couple of weeks. The key is high maintenance regime and getting the clean up team established asap, these little critters do a lot of work for you. I work on amano’s 1 per 5ltr, cherry shrimp 1 per 10ltr( they will breed hopefully) clitheron snails 1 every 6 ltrs, check those as off the top of my head.
If using cherries use a suitable filter guard. The last thing you want see is them trapped or sucked into the filter. Use a skimmer on either you inlet/ outlet or as a separate piece of equipment I recommend Aquario neo flow which can do inline CO2 and skimming on the outflow, great distribution and shrimp friendly. Don’t skimp on plants work on 70% surface area coverage minimum.
Have a very clear idea on your design, what your planting short and long term and select your livestock to benefit the tank, I have made the mistake of spontaneous fish purchases that end up bad for shrimp. Use root tabs for liberally in your base substrate just below soil level so you can help get your plants established and give them a strong start.
Starting any new set up is always a few anxious weeks but relax and go with the flow, be prepared to make some changes if some plants are not working.
Good luck and post some pics when you set up.

 

[Wookii]

Make water changes as easy as possible. You’ll be doing lots of that!!

To echo what Kirsty has said - this would be my 'Numero Uno' - changing 175 litres of water every week (and every day for the first week or two if you have aquasoil - though a weeks dark start may be easier) is going to wear thin fast if you're using buckets. Even running a hose pipe through the house every week can prove a bit labour intensive. That can then lead to skipped or reduced water changes, a resultant deterioration in tank health, and the general sucking of the fun out of the hobby.

Depending on where your tank is located, I'd always consider if you can run waste and freshwater pipes to the tank - with todays easy push fit and flexible plastic pipework, the little bit of planning and effort in the initial stages can save you a lot of time and pain over the years, and is easy enough to remove when you move house (as I've just found out).

 

[Zeus.]

Echo above esp the WC. My 500l was fully plumbed in so I had a hose to drain and fill and a mixer tap for getting the temp right, it still took some time.
Keep plumbing simple for filter pipework. I had my 500l with UPVC pipework which worked well, but took 4-6hrs to clean so didn't happen often.
Clean your filter at least one a month till it needs doing more often

 

[jamiep]

I had a reply, but it is already covered well above. Lava rock of alfagrog to bulk up the substrate, you'll still need more bags of aquasoil than you think, big regular water changes for the first week and then into the next few weeks, heavy planting, if banking up the soil, make lots of barriers else you'll be rescaping in six months. Not absolutely necessary but I added a skimmer on a timer to add to the flow. Pre soak aquasoil for a month in buckets if you already have livestock

 

[Lemonhands]

Thanks for the replies all, I would do specific replies, but thought it best to do a general response as anyone can add on top.

I'll definitely look into getting some lava rock (or similar) to build up the backs, I might actually even have some alfragrog i kept hold of from a biorb i had as one of my very first tanks.

Because of the way the Fluval Shaker is set up the pipework is built in to go through the bottom of the tank, so it may be a bit difficult to put two external filters in it... I guess there has to be a way to put in the heater so I may be able to fit in an internal filter too if required.

For clarification, as I will be using the media from my already fully cycled fluval 307 in the fluval 407, shouldn't it cycle in a much shorter time period/will I have to worry about doing daily water changes, as I thought this was for completely new uncycled filters and tanks? Or is this because of the aquasoil that I will need to do frequent water changes regardless of the already cycled media and would soaking this pre adding it to the tank help? Not that I am in any rush to put anything other than plants in it for a while as have my other tanks established already, and of course I will do some regular testing (reminds me I'm running low on my ammonia and nitrite tests) so happy to wait.

As for the water changes, i should probably give more thought to how I will do the changes, I do have a pump which I use for pumping water back into tanks currently (my poor back before this). I could probably use this to pump water directly to the back garden grass or drain with a bit of Macgyvering. Getting water back into the tank is certainly something I will give lot of thought over the next couple weeks. My tank wont be far away from my kitchen sink, so fingers crossed should be an easy fix.

One of my other tanks I have been using to grow out amano shrimp so was planning on migrating those to the new tank eventually, might even consider putting in my Arican Giant Shrimp into the tank, although I know they prefer slightly quieter tanks. As for snails I do have some in my other tanks, and the ramshorn keep laying eggs but I don't actually seem to see babies hanging around, so likely I will just have to buy more. I won't be putting cherry shrimp in there as eventually will be looking to stock electric blue acaras and don't think cherry's will stand much of a chance, but I have a tank for cherry shrimp breeding, so maybe i will test it some time (unlikely as I don't want to be cruel sending something to potentially die).

Regarding the aquasoil and root tabs, does anyone have any recomendations for good ones? I have used root tabs in my other tanks, but I see there are very reasonably priced ones on eBay, are they also fine? As for aquasoil I don't have any experience so all recommendations welcome. Does anyone have any tips for creating the barriers to stop the aquasoil drifting? Do I just smash up some of the rocks and place in a barrier way or have to place full rocks strategically to hold it back?

As for the plants, I am going to go for a central/south american tank, so will be aiming for plants from those areas. Am going to make a separate post for that closer to the time I set up the tank, as the plant database only has a small number of the total plants from these places. But I will definitely aim to get some fast growers to begin with as I have a separate tank where i store plants I am going to use in future (although currently empty sadly), so have a bit of flexibility. I have quite a big budget for plants as I know how many it takes, I would pull some out of the other tanks I have but I have pest snails that are under control in the tanks they are in, but don't want to start that all over in my new tank if I can avoid it.

Sorry for the long message, and thanks again to all those who reply!

 

[Wookii]

Or is this because of the aquasoil that I will need to do frequent water changes regardless of the already cycled media

Yes, new aquasoil can tend to release decent amounts of ammonia into the water column, which is best avoided. Having a cycled filter helps, but is only a small part of the equation. if you are breaking down a smaller tank to make way for this new larger one, then I would recommend keeping the substrate 'alive' in a bucket with air pump, and reusing it in the new tank too under the new aquasoil - that's the fastest way to help get a new tank biologically mature.

My tank wont be far away from my kitchen sink, so fingers crossed should be an easy fix.

That's ideal then. My tank in the old house was about 20ft from the kitchen sink - the first half of the run was open space, so I popped off the skirting board, and ran some 15mm plastic piping in the void the plasters always leave at the base of the plasterboard, then popped the skirting back in place. The remainder of the run was all underneath kitchen units which was easy to run in that void all the way to the sink. Took about an hour and a half all in, including filling and touching up the paint above the skirting, and installing a self-cutting tap on the mains water pipe.

For the waste I ran straight outside to a drain.

Regarding the aquasoil and root tabs, does anyone have any recomendations for good ones?

I've always used Tropica. I would personally go easy on the root tabs - they can tend to make the initial ammonia surge even worse.

 

[Lemonhands]

if you are breaking down a smaller tank to make way for this new larger one, then I would recommend keeping the substrate 'alive' in a bucket with air pump, and reusing it in the new tank too under the new aquasoil

I am keeping my existing tanks running, sadly i also have an under control 'pest' snail problem in 2 of my 3 existing tanks, so am trying to avoid using anything other than the filter media (and fish, eventually) across tanks to avoid spreading them. Good to know about the aquasoil, I can wait a few weeks to stock the new tank though, but i'll keep on top of water checks.

I've always used Tropica

Ok that's good, they stock that at my LFS so can pick that up quite easily

Regarding bordering the aquasoil, if I overlap the edge of the soil with some substrate and then cover with rocks/broken down rocks, would that be enough?

So i have picked up my tank, between me and the guys at the LFS we managed to get it in my car, just need to wait for some friends to help me get it out of the car later 😅, am buying them a pint for their help.

 

[sparkyweasel]

i also have an under control 'pest' snail problem in 2 of my 3 existing tanks

One way to deal with that is to consider them a welcome addition to the ecosystem. Then they are not a pest, and then they are not a problem.
No effort and no cost.

 

[Wookii]

sadly i also have an under control 'pest' snail problem

Like @sparkyweasel I’ve never come across a ‘pest’ snail myself, only ever helpful algae eating one’s!

 

[andy198712]

Mines 200l, and I made a massive savings going from ready made liquid ferts to making my own from the EI starter kit. So much cheaper and better.

For water changes I sython out to the toilet. And I have a fitting that screws into a mixer tap and a hose fitting connects on to this securely. Without worry of popping off like the rubber clamp on jobs
What’s more is it looks nice too! I’ll find you a link if you want?

My acra made all my shrimp hide or get eaten, nice I’ve rehomed him they have came back out again and a lot happier.

 

[andy198712]

Water change setup on larger tanks?

Hi All, So I’ve just moved house and want to get a good setup going to change the water on my 200 litre tank. It’s in the living room and the nearest water source is the toilet down stairs and sink which is about 5/6 meters away. Ideal I would drain it into the toilet and fill from the sink...

www.ukaps.org

Info on my item there and other peoples good ideas too

 

[MichaelJ]

One way to deal with that is to consider them a welcome addition to the ecosystem. Then they are not a pest, and then they are not a problem.
No effort and no cost.

Agreed! Overall, I think snails are a plus in a planted aquarium - they eat a lot more than algae, such as decaying plants, leftover fish food, detritus etc. I think, unless you to go to very great length keeping snails away, they will show up eventually, so you might as well embrace them for their positive contributions to your tank. I don't think I ever deliberately introduced snails quite honestly. They always came in with plants - and I always knew they would show up at some point. Certain snails with certain plants can cause issues, but usually snails are only snacking on plants that are decaying and weakened anyway... A much easier feast for them.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Lemonhands]

In principle i agree that there arent really any pest snails (which is why i put it in quote marks), but in practice i also dont want to spread them to another tank if i can avoid it

 

[Stu1407]

For a water change solution if you aren't DIY minded look at a Python. One pipe and tap connector does the lot.

 

[Mcchopper]

Some great advice throughout this thread. I am about to install an ADA 900 to replace my current Lido120. My plan is to move the Lido along using furniture skates to make space for the 900.
The aquarium should arrive before Christmas (fingers crossed anyway). I plan to use new soil and hardscape and was going to transfer just the plants and fish, and filter/heater (Oase 850 Thermo). It seam from this thread my pain is not as straight forward as I expected. I will have to keep the Lido running and cycle the ADA 900... Need another filter I think.....

 

[seedoubleyou]

It really can be as straight forward as just switching mate.
House the fish temporarily in a large tub with the filter running.
Take down the old scape and build the new scape.
Fill the tank up, poo the fish in and hook the filter up.
Job done.
If I’m ever doing a tank change I just buy a large plastic box from the range or B&Q to house my fish.

Some great advice throughout this thread. I am about to install an ADA 900 to replace my current Lido120. My plan is to move the Lido along using furniture skates to make space for the 900.
The aquarium should arrive before Christmas (fingers crossed anyway). I plan to use new soil and hardscape and was going to transfer just the plants and fish, and filter/heater (Oase 850 Thermo). It seam from this thread my pain is not as straight forward as I expected. I will have to keep the Lido running and cycle the ADA 900... Need another filter I think.....

 

[Mcchopper]

The new scape is a completely fresh build… only plants, fish and filter from old set up… I was under the impression that new soil.. tropica in my case releases ammonia until properly cycled

 

[seedoubleyou]

The new scape is a completely fresh build… only plants, fish and filter from old set up… I was under the impression that new soil.. tropica in my case releases ammonia until properly cycled

A cycled filter will handle the brunt of that, do a water change or two, add bacteria when you do.
If you’re worried then by all means test, but it will be perfectly fine.