Using a PH controller

[JacksonL]

The other option I thought of is to put a standalone solenoid downstream from the solenoid the controller is connected to, and have that run off a timer.

 

[Ria95]

As said I'm not into sharing my opinion or ...

Interesting theory, Marcel! However I suspect the effect to be minimal, if at all, when all the other equipment is running in good order. Also not sharing my opinion, but my observations.

pH probe in tank , plug everything out of shared power strip except the controller ...same pH
plug everything back in ...same pH
Move pH controller to a separate wall socket...same pH.
Take a sample of tank water in a plastic container, dry the exterior put on a table put probe in and wait a minute till it stabilizes from the air exposure ...same pH.

Tried the same with a second pH controller... like one posted previously, on a separate aquarium ... same pH in all situations. I can't say why some controllers fail but the theory doesn't seem to really be an issue in my tanks. Seems an easy check in any setup.

I can tell you in general that folks who use controllers love them and wouldn't be without them. I've communicated with enough of them over to years to be confident in that statement.

But again the biggest issue is fluctuating dKH. If your dKH is not stable, then a controller may not be for you.

Fully agree with you there, especially in the age of active buffering substrates. KH fluctuation will make a big impact, followed by accumulation of weak organic acids ... just enough to push the pH down bit by bit.

Still a controller comes in handy as a fail-safe device. Dial in the injection rate so that the desired pH is maintained with the solenoid open for most of the light period. Set pH controller a bit lower than that. In case CO2 injection somehow gets too high the pH controller will catch it and close it of. Some other members on this forum are also using it like that.

 

[zozo]

Interesting theory, Marcel! However I suspect the effect to be minimal, if at all, when all the other equipment is running in good order. Also not sharing my opinion, but my observations.

I'm not quite sure what effect you're pointing to, I described rather a few...

Anyway... For the record, the only theory in my story is that an electrical current flowing through the aquarium water might be a discomfort for your fish... There yet is no real proof for this, but them not showing it to you might be suspicious but also isn't a disproof. We simply do not know, but we know they have highly sensitive electroreceptive organs. If it's plausible or not that they might feel artificially added electrical current I leave in the grey area it still is in. My opinion or what I believe in this part I deem irrelevant and not worthy of a yes-no discussion. Just pick a side and have fun...

For the rest, the capacitive coupling from electrical equipment with the tank water is a technical fact. Tho it's not something with universal values different pumps and heaters and lights etc. have a different impact on the values you could measure and or have an effect on the Ph controller. You can take for granted that you don't have any capacitive coupling or simply measure it. 99% chance you have it because it's a technical aspect of electrical equipment in and around water or other conductive mediums. This is all replicable and measurable.

Some pH meters are susceptible to this capacitive coupling or electric charge in the water caused by this coupling and give faulty results if it flows back over the Ph probe... Already linked to a thread about it above. Measuring outside the tank is correct and measuring inside the tank is faulty.

I personally also experienced and observed my Milwaukee controller being very inaccurate and erratic and suddenly starting buzzing like mad without any obvious physical reasons. And I didn't seem to be alone in this and the Milwaukee controller is not alone in this. That was the trigger for me to start researching the cause...

BUZZING noise from JBJ solenoid (And this again is one of many threads about it.)

Not repeating myself, the cause is already described above. Which is not theoretical. Thus this is what you could expect using a pH controller in an aquarium with pumps, heaters and lights etc. and when you do experience it you need to tackle it. And my advice is better do not trust it out of the box from the start but make sure they are always spot on for the complete 6,8 or 10 hours, whatever period of light cycle they are used to controlling. Simply and for short always keep in control of your controller. If you think it's a laying back in the lazy chair foolproof device doing it all for you, then you might be in for a nasty surprise one day or another. Not experiencing any issues with particular combined devices is not something universally applicable to the rest of the world and all other devices combined out there.

So this is not a theoretical rant about or against pH controllers it's just some honest review, advice and information about Using a Ph Controller and potential issues you could run into.

Good luck...

Oh, btw back then I solved my Milwaukee problem by taking the probe out of the aquarium and putting it inline in the filter outlet in front of the lily pipe...

Here you can see it on the left side (Blue Probe) inline behind the aquarium.

 

[GreggZ]

I personally also experienced and observed my Milwaukee controller being very inaccurate and erratic and suddenly starting buzzing like mad without any obvious physical reasons. And I didn't seem to be alone in this and the Milwaukee controller is not alone in this. That was the trigger for me to start researching the cause...

BUZZING noise from JBJ solenoid (And this again is one of many threads about it.)

With all due respect my guess is that if your unit was buzzing it was faulty. And the link you posted has ONE person who heard buzzing with a JBJ Solenoid back in 2004. Two others had issues and made minor changes and solved them. There are thousands of these types of units in use everyday and people have been using them successfully for years and years.

Just saying that IMO there are loads of things to worry about in a planted tank, but your pH monitor or controller zapping your fish is not one of them.

Also curious how moving a device from one area of the water column to another changed anything?

 

[zozo]

With all due respect my guess is that if your unit was buzzing it was faulty. And the link you posted has ONE person who heard buzzing with a JBJ Solenoid back in 2004. Two others had issues and made minor changes and solved them. There are thousands of these types of units in use everyday and people have been using them successfully for years and years.

They all had a Milwaukee controller the same as I used, and the controller has a relay, the solenoid actually is similar to a relay it's an electric operated gas valve/switch. Guess what? If the relay switches the solenoid will follow switching too, that is the whole idea behind it. If the relay switches erratically the solenoid will do the same thing simultaneously. His bulky JBJ solenoid probably was buzzing louder than the controller's tiny relay so he didn't notice and only blamed the solenoid...

With so many in use I would expect something like this would not only be documented but also solved by the manufacturers.

Also curious how moving a device from one area of the water column to another changed anything?

A less noisy spot...

Documented? Yes, it is, and easily accessible if you are willing to find it... Solved also yes, and as said I did too but it took me quite a while to find that sweet spot in a 10ft² footprint affected by interferences.

Electrical Interference
pH is a deceptively simple measurement. However, there are many factors that need to be taken into account for a reliable reading. The most important characteristic of pH electrodes is their very high impedance, of the order of 109 ohms. This is compounded by noisy factory environments and by long distances between the electrode and the controller.

Guess what, an aquarium with pumps, heaters, and lights can be a darn noisy little factory, some light setups are noisier than others.

PH Drops when lights turn on - Reef Central Online Community

PH Drops when lights turn on Large Reef Tanks

www.reefcentral.com

Reef Central Online Community - View Single Post - PH Drops when lights turn on

Reef Central is dedicated to the marine reef aquarium hobby. Learn about reef aquarium setup and maintenance, and view coral and marine fish photos. Visit our online community and discuss and chat with hobbyists of all levels from beginner to advanced.

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Funny actually talking about noise? Controller noise is caused by the noisiness in and around your fish tank.

Noise in this terminology is a synonym for "Random variation in signals of the electromagnetic spectrum that carries no useful information from the source. And extraneous uncontrolled variables influencing the distribution of measurements in a set of data."

Relay Hunting/Buzzing

Hunting of the relays around the setpoint is a very common problem faced in the industry. This may even lead to the breakdown of expensive dosing pumps and solenoids at times.

Typical Problems in Industrial pH Measurement & Control from Cole-Parmer

With increasing growth in human population, water for human consumption has become scarce and increasingly polluted so monitoring water quality is important. pH is one the most important parameters that define water quality. Read this article to learn solutions to common problems in industrial...

www.coleparmer.com

To say they are faulty, define faulty!? Wrong measurements? Then yes... It could be faulty and there is no guarantee it will be stable in an aquarium set up with the controller out of the box. Is it broken if it's not? No it isn't, it can be solved but if the footprint is too small and the interference too much you could be in for a treat? It's not something for the manufacturer to solve but for the end-user, if he wants to measure and control in a noisy environment.

Just saying that IMO there are loads of things to worry about in a planted tank, but your pH monitor or controller zapping your fish is not one of them.

Nice way of emphasizing things but I didn't say anything about zapping either... I guess one should worry more about potentially gassing the fish rather than zapping them using a pH controller.

 

[JacksonL]

Thanks for all the input everyone!
I found the newer version of the Up Aqua pH controller at a local shop and after the positive reviews of the older model here I took the plunge into pH controllers.
It looks to be the same setup as the ones posted here, just with a more modern look.