Vallis problem - browning from tips.

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by Ben_K, 1 Oct 2007.

  1. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    Hello all,
    My Vallis' seem to be having a problem. Over the last 2 days some of them have started browning from the ends of the leaves. The ones that have are between 50-90% browned. Not all of them have it and the ones in the most light seem to be ok. I know they have high light requirements and Im only offering the whole tank about 38W at the moment. Is this an indicator of not enough light? Or something else? They get dosed with Flourish 2x per week and Flourish Excel every day. I also dose Flourish Iron every 2 days.
    Any thoughts?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    whats the KH of your water? vallis of all varieties needs pretty hard water.

    other than that, could be certain fish nipping the ends off.. vallis hates its tips missing, if it does the whole lot will brown off from the top down. rosey barbs and angel fish are pretty notorious for this.

    are you uptogether on ferts and co2? vallis will tollerate pretty shoddy maintanence, and will even lay dormant plantlets under the surface that can last for upto a year (in my experience) before sprouting when conditions improve.
     
  3. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    At the last test (using just Tetra 5-in-1 sticks): -Saturday 29th October
    KH - 6-10 od (closer to 6)
    GH - 10-16 od
    NO2 - 0
    NO3 - 10-25
    pH - 7.2

    Hmmm, well, I do now have some Angels but I only got them last week. That seems very quick work. I guess its very possible though.

    Hmmm... Im getting there. This is my first attempt at seriously using live plants. Im doing a fair bit of reading up on the conditions. I dose with the ferts as mentioned above and I dont have a separate CO2 system (I am looking at making a pressurised system once money allows but for now Im using Excel).

    One thing I did do on Saturday was add some airflow into the tank with a small airstone as the fish were breathing a little hard. This is why I did a test of the water then. I have noticed this afternoon that my Amazon Swords seem to be getting darker veins and some of them are starting to yellow and some of them are getting clear spots appearing. Could this be related to the airflow?

    If you need any extra info, photos, or test information, let me know. If you think I should get some form of test kit that I dont have, please tell me and I'll go grab one.

    Thanks!
     
  4. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    your water should be fine for vallis with those readings, even uncalibrated.

    sounds like its a fert deficiency then. if your not already, its worth starting to dose using the estimative index method, as this will rule out any issues with ferts almost instantly, all youll have to worry about then is your co2. If your swords are showing signs as well then this is the most likely cause.

    Make sure though that your Co2 is on the money, use a drop checker with a lab made (or home made if money is tight) 4dKH solution in it, NOT tank water.. this will mean that when the checker goes green, your bang on. if your lacking co2, then the plants arent going to be able to take up ferts, so any work you do with ferts is going to be useless. always remember that co2 is the tool that plants use to absorb ferts and you wont go far wrong.

    any pics you have are always handy :) we have lots of members with lots of experience on here, chances are someone will have seen the very issue you have.


    Edit: just reread your post and saw your using excel.. thats probably your issue.. while you dont have co2, id reduce your lighting as far as you can, to about 1wpg, this will slow down the whole system and allow your plants more time to absorb ferts your adding.
     
  5. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    For the immediate future Im stuck with Excel. Certainly for the next month or two.
    As I mentioned above, I only have 38W of light in the tank at the moment. I was actually going to up the light to a twin 55w unit (2WPG) when I get a chance before I did the the CO2. I was going to use Excel until I then got the CO2 system. Would it be better with low light but with a good CO2 system, or vice versa?

    Ok, will go and take some now. Will post them in about 10mins or so.

    Ah, just seen your edit. With 38w of light thats 0.69 WPG so they are already on low light. :?
     
  6. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    ive jsut remembered something.... vallis doesnt like excel, i seem to remember it kills it pretty damn fast.. can someone else confirm this please?
     
  7. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    Crap. I think you're right. I can remember this from Plantgeek as well. Its been mentioned a lot. Bugger. :(
    Guess I'll have to remove them until I get a CO2 then. I'll put them in my quarantine til I get a normal CO2 system. :?
    Does anyone know what it is that they dont like in it, just out of interest?
     
  8. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    they should be able to last for ages in a tank without anything at all, its a very resilient plant in poor growing conditions, as i said, itll even hybernate. i think it might have been on barrreport that i remember reading it has troubles with excel.

    id be really interested as well to find out what it is that it doesnt like.
     
  9. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    I'm running a 3' tank with Excel (no additional CO2) and have fairly rampant vallis (common stuff, spiralis probably). I've never overdosed with Excel so I don't know if that would be detrimental, but so far everything seems OK.

    I hadn't heard of any plant suffering under Excel, only algae.
     
  10. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    excel can be used to kill riccia dead in its tracks, so i know its possible for excel to be a cause, intentional or unintentional, of plant demise. also, excel is used to kill some types of algae, which are plants.. so the principle is the same, i would think it depends purely on the dosage.
     
  11. milla

    milla Member

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Leeds
    Vallis melts when overdosing with excel. Or when poured onto the leaves when dosing to tank. I found out the hard way, what a mess.
     
  12. Matt Holbrook-Bull

    Matt Holbrook-Bull Founder

    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    quote from George from the Barr report this january. he was asking about its effects on Riccia but the convo went into vallis and other types.

    with a reply from Tom shortly afterwards..

    it looks like it hadnt been tested properly in January, maybe if your in a position to test then nows a good time! :)

    obviously just confirmed as well by Milla, so its not looking good for vallis vs excel!
     
  13. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    Darn... I may transfer them in that case as I think the other plants will appreciate some Excel usage (Quite a few Amazon Swords and some Cabomba).
     
  14. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    When I next dose I'll pour it on the leaves lying on the surface and see what happens.

    I was thinking of getting rid of the vallis anyway as it's turned into a bit of a weed....
     
  15. Ben_K

    Ben_K Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Bursledon, Hampshire
    Im just wondering... am I better to transfer the Vallis out or should I leave them and just reduce the Excel dose? Im concerned that a reduced dose may have an effect on the swords and Cabomba.

    For a rough idea of how much I have, take a look at my journal page.
     
  16. beeky

    beeky Member

    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Chippenham, Wiltshire
    From my experience so far, a 'normal' dose of Excel shows no harmful effect on Vallis. It sounds like you just need to be careful not to overdose or pour it directly on the leaves. In my tank the Vallis is on the opposite side to the filter outlet, so I pour it into the outlet stream and I haven't seen any problems.
     

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