Warning! Fake Dual Stage Regulators!

Discussion in 'CO2Art' started by CO2Art.co.uk, 30 Oct 2016.

  1. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Dear All,

    Firstly, I’m very sorry for not being active enough on this forum.

    A lot of things is going on here at CO2Art. We are working on something very big for past year and we can’t wait to share it with you. Unfortunately, we can’t do any pre-release announcements as we found out that we have competition who is building own business based on our hard work (more information below).

    Now I would like to warn everyone!
    We noticed that our competition is copying external look of all our products, including style of pictures on website. They copied everything to this point that customers are confused thinking that they buying same CO2Art quality products!

    Recently we even received return from customer complaining performance issue of dual stage regulator. What we found is that this is not our regulator and even worst, regulator which has been advertised as dual stage is not dual stage!!!

    Picture of this regulator :
    fakeDualStageCO2Regulator.jpg

    As you can see it looks almost same to our dual stage regulator.

    Unfortunately this regulator does not have two stages. This is single stage regulator with adjustable pressure!

    If you bought this regulator, please monitor your working pressure. I'm very concerned, that you may gas your livestock due to EOTD.

    This is very disappointing situation, but we thought we need to warn you as we don't know how many customers has been mis-sold.
     
    MrHidley likes this.
  2. Michal550

    Michal550 Member

    Messages:
    88
    Who is selling the fake regulators?
     
  3. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,271
    Location:
    London
    I assume the fake ones do not have your branding on them, so why worry about it?
     
    Nelson and tim like this.
  4. John S

    John S Member

    Messages:
    831
    Location:
    Welwyn Garden City
    I think the original post has been edited. Yesterday it had a link to a site that was selling 'fake' ones. The post also mentioned an un-named sponsor here selling 'fake' dual stage ones. If the latter is the case, and they are selling what is not on the tin then surely that is a concern?
     
  5. rebel

    rebel Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    To be fair, the picture looks very similar down to the blue knob.
     
  6. tadabis

    tadabis Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I saw unnedited post aswell. Now its changed!
     
  7. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Hello,

    Indeed, we did edited this post as we found out that companies we mentioned stopped selling those regulators now or put them as out of stock. So no reason for running marketing campaign for them!

    As I mentioned, customers are so confused, they think we are same company! This is why we received this unit as faulty CO2Art product. If you look closer, website pictures, products, everything looks like us. This is one concern.
    Second and main concern is question how many people have been miss-sold!? This is not some base in Asia seller, this is UK based company who probably sold those fake "dual stage" regulator to UKAPS members.
     
  8. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    I seem to remember a while back there being questions being asked about whether your 'dual stage' regulators were in fact 'fake' due to reports of EOTD. You supplied a photo/diagram which did actually confirm it was only single stage as there was only one pressure chamber inside the regulator. So yours aren't dual stage either, but you still sell them as such. Seems a little hypocritical to accuse others of dishonesty when you're doing it yourself????
     
  9. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Dear EgorTheGreat,

    I do remember this post, very well and is not even very difficult to find it! I've done quick search for you :
    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dual-stage-co2-regulators-for-aquaria-co2-art.29641/page-3

    If you read it through you will find that first of all, no one reported EOTD, secondly, we proved via drawing it has two chambers :)

    By the way, welcome back after 2 years of not being active. Looks like you have very big interest in dual stage regulators and giving support to someone who is the main concern in this post (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/members/egorthegreat.9922/#postings).
     
    Last edited: 2 Nov 2016
    sanj, foxfish and Iain Sutherland like this.
  10. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    We both know there have been quite a few posts about your dual stage regulators, primarily the question of whether or not they are genuine dual stage. I remember there were at least two or three reports of EOTD using your dual stage regulators because one of them was my friend who lost almost all of his fish. He took it to an oil and gas engineer who confirmed it was single stage.

    After much persuasion I remember you provided a diagram of the internals which confirmed it was single stage, and oh, that thread and diagram has now also disappeared. How strange...

    Like I say, seems rather hypocritical to be flinging mud of something you yourself are guilty of, and still actually selling!
     
  11. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Dear EgorTheGreat,

    We will not go through this again...drawings, drawings :) I bet someone really need our dual stage regulator drawing right now!

    Main difference between us and your favorite company is that we still selling our dual stage regulator as we developed it ourselves and we know what we are selling (opposite to our competition, who thought copying external look is enough to have dual stage regulator).

    If one of your friends had EOTD, then maybe they done same mistake as customer who returned to us not our regulator?
     
  12. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    We'll not go through it again... because....? Because why? Because you know you're still selling single stage as dual stage?

    I found the thread where you posted the diagram, it's on plantedtank.net

    DualStage.jpg

    So if this is dual stage, where are the two gas chambers that are needed to equalise the output pressure and prevent EOTD....?

    You were selling these a year or two before the other retailer, so you set the ball rolling on this and misled a lot of people. At least the other retailer doesn't sell them any more, but you do. Like I say, just seems incredibly hypocritical to point the finger at someone else for something they used to do, but you yourself are still doing.
     
  13. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Thank you very much for posting it here :)

    I think we should stop here...clearly you don't really understand drawings and dual stage working principles.

    If you know plantedtank.net forum, then I strongly suggest to go there and educate yourself. There is many topics which covers this subject, including discussion about our unique and revolutionary design.
     
  14. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    Ha, yeh, I can understand why you'd want me to go away, your negative PR campaign is no longer working as you'd intended.

    I understand the concept of single / dual stage very well, and your design is single stage. My friend took it to an oil and gas engineer and they confirmed as such. But for people reading this, look at the diagrams:

    Single stage (from Wikipedia)

    300px-Single-stage-regulator.svg.png

    Dual stage (from Wikipedia)
    300px-Two-stage-regulator.svg.png

    Although it's small, it's quite clear from the diagram of your 'dual stage' regulator is in fact single stage:

    DualStage.jpg
    There's only one poppet, one diaphragm and no adjuster to set the first stage pressure. If this was dual stage it would have two poppet valves, two diaphragms and a screw to set first stage pressure.

    Sorry to be a thorn in your side, but what you're doing is equally as bad as the other retailer, but at least they don't sell them any more, you do!
     
  15. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    I trust that you will now be taking them off sale, or moving them to 'single stage' category to avoid misleading any more people?
     
  16. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    No, we will not :) As we know what we developed.
     
  17. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    Oh, okay then, let's just ignore the diagram that you supplied, and that my friend took it to an oil and gas engineer (who designs regulators and valves for a job for 30 years) who confirmed it was single stage.

    So there is evidence to prove it, but you've just said you're going to continue to sell as dual stage, which I think is a really dishonest thing to do.
     
    Last edited: 2 Nov 2016
  18. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
  19. EgorTheGreat

    EgorTheGreat Newly Registered

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    But it's NOT dual stage. Perhaps you found a way to make single stage work without experiencing EOTD, but that DOESN'T make it dual stage. For it to be dual stage it must have certain characteristics and components, which it doesn't have. It may well be a mutation of single stage, but dual stage it is not.
     
  20. CO2Art.co.uk

    CO2Art.co.uk Sponsor

    Messages:
    178
    Dear EgorTheGreat I really appreciate your input.

    Everyone has a right to their own opinion and we accept this.
     

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