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Warning! Fake Dual Stage Regulators!

That is good to hear. I'm sorry, but you can't just make a design tweak to a single stage regulator and then label it dual stage. So as this thread was about 'Fake Dual Stage Regulators' being sold, and I think it's apparent that actually yours are single stage (albeit with a modification), then will you stop selling them as dual stage and move them to the appropriate 'single stage' category? Practice what you preach and all that.
 
No, we will not.

We already explained this to you why...so don't ask this question again please :)

Regulator we developed is DUAL STAGE construction even if you disagree with that.

As I said, everyone has a right to their own opinion even if it is different to many knowledgeable specialists in this industry.
 
I was previously discussing with co2 art whether or not one of their 'dual stage' regulators was a fake dual stage, but they blocked me - maybe I was getting too close to the truth, I dunno. The full discussion can be read here:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/warning-fake-dual-stage-regulators.43268/

The last comment (at time of writing this) by @rebel linked to a dual stage regulator that was being reviewed by someone on PlantedTank.net, but the regulator in the link that rebel provided is the ‘Advanced Dual Stage’ and it’s the same type as sold by GLA and CO2 Supermarket. I do believe those regulators are indeed ‘genuine’ dual stage, I don’t dispute that.

The regulator I've been referring to and being sold by co2 art as a fake dual stage is the ‘Professional dual stage’, i.e. this one:

https://www.co2art.co.uk/collection...gulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve-smc-valve

They can call it whatever they want, whether that be 'unique' or 'proprietary' it doesn't change the fact it's not a dual stage regulator; it’s a single stage regulator that has been modified to behave like a dual stage regulator, perhaps to eliminate EOTD. So my point here is, even if it behaves like dual stage, it’s not actually dual stage, and therefore is itself a fake – exactly what co2 art were warning people against.

Let me put it this way; if you stick some feathers up your butt and start pecking around for food, does it make you a chicken? No, it makes you someone with some feathers stuck up your butt pretending to be a chicken, but you aren’t a chicken, and you shouldn’t be sold as a chicken.

No doubt I'll be blocked from replying to this, we shall see.
 
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I was previously discussing with co2 art whether or not one of their 'dual stage' regulators was a fake dual stage, but they blocked me - maybe I was getting too close to the truth, I dunno. The full discussion can be read here:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/warning-fake-dual-stage-regulators.43268/

The last comment (at time of writing this) by @rebel linked to a dual stage regulator that was being reviewed by someone on PlantedTank.net, but the regulator in the link that rebel provided is the ‘Advanced Dual Stage’ and it’s the same type as sold by GLA and CO2 Supermarket. I do believe those regulators are indeed ‘genuine’ dual stage, I don’t dispute that.

The regulator I've been referring to and being sold by co2 art as a fake dual stage is the ‘Professional dual stage’, i.e. this one:

https://www.co2art.co.uk/collection...gulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve-smc-valve

They can call it whatever they want, whether that be 'unique' or 'proprietary' it doesn't change the fact it's not a dual stage regulator; it’s a single stage regulator that has been modified to behave like a dual stage regulator, perhaps to eliminate EOTD. So my point here is, even if it behaves like dual stage, it’s not actually dual stage, and therefore is itself a fake – exactly what co2 art were warning people against.

Let me put it this way; if you stick some feathers up your butt and start pecking around for food, does it make you a chicken? No, it makes you someone with some feathers stuck up your butt pretending to be a chicken, but you aren’t a chicken, and you shouldn’t be sold as a chicken.

No doubt I'll be blocked from replying to this, we shall see.

Hi Egor,

Do you have evidence this is a single stage? - i.e. have you purchased and deconstructed the device and have images?

I hope you can appreciate that rudimentary MS 'Paint' drawings from Wikipedia aren't sufficient - What I mean to say is Dual Stages may be manufactured in a variety of manners which may cause their layout to be altered.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks
Alex
 
Hi Egor,

Do you have evidence this is a single stage? - i.e. have you purchased and deconstructed the device and have images?

I hope you can appreciate that rudimentary MS 'Paint' drawings from Wikipedia aren't sufficient - What I mean to say is Dual Stages may be manufactured in a variety of manners which may cause their layout to be altered.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks
Alex

Thanks Alex, I also can't wait to see this! :)

EgorTheGreat,

I would be very grateful if you introduce yourself! I'm just fed up with fake regulators, fake profiles, to many fakes here. I don't mind that competition / other forum sponsor is commenting on our company forum.

Looking at your profile and posts you published so far it's clear for me who you are or working for (this is why we banned you from other topic).
 
Ok, to clear something up, I do not or have not worked for any retailer. I've bought products from pretty much every retailers there is, and I'll give credit to co2 art, they are a good company and provide good service, and I don't mean to take that away from them.

Fair point, no I don't have one in my hands to take apart, I'm going on what my friend said told me when he had problems with his and took it to his engineering friend to investigate, that, plus the diagram that co2 art themselves provided. If you don't want to take my word on that, then that's fine. If it's single stage and has anti-EOTD mechanism then that's good in itself, as lets be honest, that's why people buy dual stage. But I just don't think it should be sold as dual stage if it's not actually dual stage, that's all.
 
Ok, to clear something up, I do not or have not worked for any retailer. I've bought products from pretty much every retailers there is, and I'll give credit to co2 art, they are a good company and provide good service, and I don't mean to take that away from them.

Thank you, I'm glad you are happy with our service! You are very welcome.

Fair point, no I don't have one in my hands to take apart, I'm going on what my friend said told me when he had problems with his and took it to his engineering friend to investigate, that, plus the diagram that co2 art themselves provided. If you don't want to take my word on that, then that's fine. If it's single stage and has anti-EOTD mechanism then that's good in itself, as lets be honest, that's why people buy dual stage. But I just don't think it should be sold as dual stage if it's not actually dual stage, that's all.

Please ask your friend if they haven't made same mistake as our customer who bought fake CO2 Supermarket "dual stage" regulator and though this is CO2Art product.
 
Ok, to clear something up, I do not or have not worked for any retailer. I've bought products from pretty much every retailers there is, and I'll give credit to co2 art, they are a good company and provide good service, and I don't mean to take that away from them.

Fair point, no I don't have one in my hands to take apart, I'm going on what my friend said told me when he had problems with his and took it to his engineering friend to investigate, that, plus the diagram that co2 art themselves provided. If you don't want to take my word on that, then that's fine. If it's single stage and has anti-EOTD mechanism then that's good in itself, as lets be honest, that's why people buy dual stage. But I just don't think it should be sold as dual stage if it's not actually dual stage, that's all.

I understand.

I just want to be clear - I haven't purchased anything from Co2 Art - In-fact, I've made a purchase from their competitor - I just want to make sure people understand I'm an objective observer; not a partisan fanatic for either company.

I note your acceptance you haven't seen the actual device yourself - thats noble of you, no sarcasm intended.

With that being said, do you also accept that it is possible your friend may not have been entirely honest and that you're conveying third party news which itself is questionable? For example - did this Engineer deconstruct the device? Also, my initial questions would be - given the service that CO2 Art provide (and I've always had quick replies and it appears their most helpful) - why would he incur further cost having an Engineer examine the item as opposed to just approaching CO2 Art directly and obtaining a refund and costs for any damages incurred by the fish death? Why has your friend not commented on these forums of their website? Has your friend raised an issue with CO2 Art? I get the impression they're blissfully unaware of who your friend is and their complaint.

All these questions aren't to say there are no issues - but they are certainly questions I'd want answering before I am happy to even begin to re-consider purcashing an item from CO2 Art.

The Diagram which was posted - whilst I'm not an engineer in trade and couldn't begin to interpret it - is claimed to be proof of it being dual stage. If this wasn't the case, I'm sure any savy member of this forum (for which they are many) would have picked up on it. Unless, you're an expert and you're saying, via your expert opinion, that it is impossible that the diagram indicates a dual stage device?

If not, then perhaps you could share your thoughts on whether or not a dual stage device could be re-designed in a unique and novel manner as to reduce size etc? If this is the case, could it not be more reasonable that you are looking at a re-designed device which has a unique and novel manufacturing?

These are just questions floating around in my head, I do look forward to your thoughts Egor.

Many thanks
Alex
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be proved wrong here. I'll contact my friend to ask if he still has it or any photos, but given it was a couple of years ago, I suspect not. I bought my system from co2 supermarket more than 2 years ago which is in my son's room, and for my second system for the tank in my living room I bought from GLA - both are still running fine. But I've bought diffusers and bits from co2 art as well.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be proved wrong here. I'll contact my friend to ask if he still has it or any photos, but given it was a couple of years ago, I suspect not. I bought my system from co2 supermarket more than 2 years ago which is in my son's room, and for my second system for the tank in my living room I bought from GLA - both are still running fine. But I've bought diffusers and bits from co2 art as well.

That would be most helpful, thank you.

If I could pester you to consider a few of the other questions I've raised for your thoughts?

That would brilliant.

Thanks Egor,
Alex
 
@AlexH I would agree with your view point. We need to be skeptical of third party observations. There is nothing that stops anyone from buying a CO2art reg and examining it to make sure it's not dual stage. Until that's done, all we have is what the company tells you and what their service is like.

@EgorTheGreat Without any definite evidence, I doubt you can make a claim that CO2art is not telling the truth. Well you can make the claim, but no one has to believe you. :)
 
Hi All,

Please find below picture which explains how our dual stage regulator has been designed.
dualStageRegulator.jpg

(If you own it, feel free to dismantle it. All sealings are done with specially designed o-rings which can be easily assembled back together; to allow easy maintenance of our regulators - this is why we are able to offer 10 years warranty!)

As you can see above, our regulator reduces pressure in two different stages (1st, with one large spring, pressure is reduced to +-10bar/145psi) then gas is redirected to middle chamber, where we have two small springs allowing you to adjust pressure between 0 and 6bar / 90psi.

If anyone here bought fake dual stage regulator from our competition like CO2 Supermarket, please send us pictures and we will go through this constructions to show you that actually they copied only external look forgetting about main functionality.

Thanks!
 
(If you own it, feel free to dismantle it. All sealings are done with specially designed o-rings which can be easily assembled back together; to allow easy maintenance of our regulators - this is why we are able to offer 10 years warranty!)
Haha well played!

Can't argue with this one. Until someone dismantles and proves either party wrong, I'd say we are at a stalemate. CO2art still has the edge on this one though.
 
Hi All,

Please find below picture which explains how our dual stage regulator has been designed.
dualStageRegulator.jpg

(If you own it, feel free to dismantle it. All sealings are done with specially designed o-rings which can be easily assembled back together; to allow easy maintenance of our regulators - this is why we are able to offer 10 years warranty!)

As you can see above, our regulator reduces pressure in two different stages (1st, with one large spring, pressure is reduced to +-10bar/145psi) then gas is redirected to middle chamber, where we have two small springs allowing you to adjust pressure between 0 and 6bar / 90psi.

If anyone here bought fake dual stage regulator from our competition like CO2 Supermarket, please send us pictures and we will go through this constructions to show you that actually they copied only external look forgetting about main functionality.

Thanks!

*wink wink*

To celebrate your success i think you should offer a discount on this reg for a period of time ;)

... for newbies like me to consider, lol!
 
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