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What am I doing wrong with my Amazon Frogbit

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dY6kvDZ9

Seedling
Joined
17 Nov 2011
Messages
7
Hi there,

I've tried to grow this a few times and the same issue each time. I thought this time round I'd try and work out what I'm doing wrong!

This is a 150 litre tank with an Aquaray grobeam 600 a few inches off the surface. I'm using the EI starter kit from a sponser and am also dosing liquid CO2.

Last time I tried to grow this I was injecting CO2 and had the same issue.

As you can see in the pictures the leaves start to melt after a few days and holes develop. Also the roots don't grow that long.

The water is soft here, not sure what else to add.

ls7qJA8.jpg
iksyIBl.jpg

I've also started having an issue with the java fern, the leaves go brown and holes develop, on new and old leaves. I assumed this was lack of Co2 for the lighting and thought the Frogbit would help shade things a bit, but obviously not!

snxJoNy.jpg

Any suggestions?
 
Hi all,
The Amazon Frogbit leaves look to have snail damage?, although condensation lensing may also play a part, as the damage seem to have started on the upper surface, possibly where burn marks had produced dead patches.
The emersed Java Fern is showing damage from drying, if you are getting it on submerged leaves as well it may be high light levels causing local damage to the leaves. I've got similar looking damage on the Amazon Frogbit on my outside pond at the moment, and that is being caused by China-mark moth caterpillars <Small China-mark Cataclysta lemnata - UKMoths>.

Any plants with aerial portions won't be suffering from a shortage of carbon, because they have access to aerial CO2 at 400ppm.


If your water is really soft you could try adding some calcium, either as CaCl2 or CaSO4.2H2O, or just from a small amount of "oyster shell chick grit" in the filter. If your water is hard enough for snails to survive you will have enough calcium. You also need to check that you are adding some magnesium in your EI kit, as your water won't supply any. "Epsom Salts" (MgSO4.7H2O) are a good cheap source of Mg.

cheers Darrel
 
Thanks both for the replies. I don't think it's snails, I only have one assassin snail in the tank and I've never seen it near a plant, it generally lives under the substrate (it could be eating at night though). The way the surface current works in the tank, a lot of the Frogbit doesn't sit directly under the lights so I'm not sure if it's getting burnt. The last time I successfully grew this it was in a closed lid tank with two T5's and I didn't seem to get any burns.
The Java fern is submerged, I took the photo during a water change. It used to be healthy and green, something changed and it doesn't seem happy any more. At some point I switched from Flourish Excel to Neutro Co2, can't see how that would do it and I'm not sure if the time coincided.

If the assassin snail is ok would that suggest I have enough calcium?

The EI kit has:

Potassium nitrate
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Phosphate
(and trace).

This is the amount I'm dosing:

Macro Solution
Mix, Shake & Leave to Dissolve Overnight:
4tsp Potassium Nitrate
1tsp Potassium Phosphate
6tsp Magnesium Sulphate
500ml Water

Dosing
Macro 3x a week. (10ml per 50ltr of Aquarium water)
Micro 3x a week. (10ml per 50ltr of Aquarium water)
 
Is there any splashing from your filters over the frogbit? Does it end up in the unlit corners of the tank, caught behind powerheads, filter inlets/outlets? If it gets constantly wet on the top leaves they seem to die.
As for the java fern, I had the exact same issue. I first put it in a low tech conditions, it slowly withered and if it grew, it grew stunted and the leaves eventually died before growing long, so it was always like a 3 leaf rhizome, exactly like on your picture(actually yours is bushier :) ) Then I moved it to another low tech tank and for some reason it recovered, I never figured it why but that tank got more light from the window which is strange. Then once it grew, I moved it to a "higher tech" tank that got dosed with micro/macro ferts and CO2 and it started dying again. And like that for 3 years till I was left with nothing. I gave up on java fern but a few months ago I bought some for a soil/low tech tank and it's been growing well for the first time I've kept it, so I think I wasn't putting enough out of some nitrogen, possibly phosphates, or maybe even nitrates.
From what I've researched java fern likes a lot of potassium, phosphate and calcium. I've got very hard water so I presumed it's not calcium the problem but in your case that might be an issue. I'd try increasing the dose on all 3 macro ferts + calcium. Every tank has different needs so formulas are just a guide.
 
I guess it could be lack of light? The light is close to the surface of the water and the current would keep them out of the light for a lot of the time.
 
I think this could be an issue, at least in my case it was.
You can always perform a home test by putting some in a glass bowl with some tank water and then on the window sill. That way you are eliminating lack of light, splashing/wetting of the top of the leaves, and then you can eliminate the nutritient issue by dosing one by one and see to which one they respond.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, that's a great idea. I've put another light over the tank and also put some in a glass on the window sill. I'll report back in a week or so.
 
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