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What the best filter to have on a planted tank
Weasel, there are a few folk who use sumps on planted tanks but they are not very popular for good reason!
With any C02 enriched tank we strive to keep the gas in the tank for as long as possible, the issue with a sump, or at least one installed beneath the tank, is how you get the water into the sump.
Pouring water down the overflow is like opening the top of a fizzy drinks bottle & allowing the C02 to escape.
So yes sumps can be used but you need to consider the amount of flow & bear in mine that you will be useing much more C02 than with a sealed power filter.
However if you want to use your sump there are a few ways to utilise their benefits, keep the flow level down & subsidise the 10 x rule with an additional source,use the auto top up from the mains supply to ease water changes & use a mesh pre filter in the overflow box. keep the internals basic to avoid attracting plant debris
I have my sump fitted at tank level & use a sealed trickle filter.
With any C02 enriched tank we strive to keep the gas in the tank for as long as possible, the issue with a sump, or at least one installed beneath the tank, is how you get the water into the sump.
Pouring water down the overflow is like opening the top of a fizzy drinks bottle & allowing the C02 to escape.
So yes sumps can be used but you need to consider the amount of flow & bear in mine that you will be useing much more C02 than with a sealed power filter.
However if you want to use your sump there are a few ways to utilise their benefits, keep the flow level down & subsidise the 10 x rule with an additional source,use the auto top up from the mains supply to ease water changes & use a mesh pre filter in the overflow box. keep the internals basic to avoid attracting plant debris
I have my sump fitted at tank level & use a sealed trickle filter.
weasel
Member
- Joined
- 6 Apr 2013
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- 70
This is what puzzles me when using pressure filters and Co2..where does the aerobic bacteria get its oxygen thats needed to support a healthy biomass,i understand you will loose a great deal of C02..my flow is 360 ltr/h but as you say is subsidised by additional source...
As s a general rule planted tanks do not holed a lot of fish & we carry out at least one 50% water change a week so it would seem that super efficient filtration is just not required!
That is not to say good filtration is not required or is a bad thing of course but, we are not dealing with super sensitive marine fish that thrive in super oxygenated water.
I have opted for the very best filtration I can manage without having to pump in huge amounts of gas, however I have also operated very successful tanks with very basic canister filtration & this seems the easy, least hassle & most gas efficient way to go!
I have found that empty sumps coupled with a small sealed trickle tower are fantastically efficiente, I use a fine wire mesh in the overflow to catch most of the debris as a first stage & use a separate 'in sump' pump to just flow two x tank volume over the bio balls.
The sump acts like a settlement chamber & is syphoned off regularly so in fact the only really fine mechanical filtration is in the canister filter that feeds the trickle tower.
I also run several tanks that just have a single bag of bio balls in the sump that are remover regularly & washed out, this also seems to work with the main sump area acting as settlement.
That is not to say good filtration is not required or is a bad thing of course but, we are not dealing with super sensitive marine fish that thrive in super oxygenated water.
I have opted for the very best filtration I can manage without having to pump in huge amounts of gas, however I have also operated very successful tanks with very basic canister filtration & this seems the easy, least hassle & most gas efficient way to go!
I have found that empty sumps coupled with a small sealed trickle tower are fantastically efficiente, I use a fine wire mesh in the overflow to catch most of the debris as a first stage & use a separate 'in sump' pump to just flow two x tank volume over the bio balls.
The sump acts like a settlement chamber & is syphoned off regularly so in fact the only really fine mechanical filtration is in the canister filter that feeds the trickle tower.
I also run several tanks that just have a single bag of bio balls in the sump that are remover regularly & washed out, this also seems to work with the main sump area acting as settlement.
weasel
Member
- Joined
- 6 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 70
sounds like a good design that works,wouldnt mine seeing some pics of that if you dont mind
I flush my full sump to waste daily as its straight to main drain giving me 11ltr per day waterchange from a 140 tank..a sock catches all the debri from the plants which is swilled out in the sink..
Hi all,
Personally I would always have a wet and dry trickle filter given the choice, largely because of their huge gas exchange surface.
In planted tanks the situation is different, the plants themselves are both removing ammonia and CO2 from the water column, and adding oxygen via photosynthesis, and at the end of the photo-period the water is likely to be 100% saturated with oxygen.
Once photosynthesis stops, the situation changes and the plants become net producers of CO2 and consumers of oxygen. This is why it is safest to turn off the CO2 at night, mainly because of the "Bohr-Root" effect :< Fish Respiration>.
Have a look a this thread <Overnight CO2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society>
Another point is that I like a sponge pre-filter on all my filters, this has a number of advantages:
I want as much oxygen in my filter as possible, because the microbial conversion of NH3 - NO2 - NO3 is an oxygen intensive process:
NH3 + CO2 + 1.5 O2 → NO2- + CO2 + 0.5 O2 → NO3-
The ways of increasing oxygenation are basically by having a larger gas exchange surface (in something like a wet and dry trickle filter), increasing flow speed or adding oxygen via photosynthesising plants. Plants also offer the dual advantages of adding more sites for microbial action and removing NH3, NO2 and NO3 from the water.
An external power filter, containing a large volume of ceramic media or sintered glass, and with high water turnover volume (x 10 or more), may still be working at a fraction of its capacity, if the water is rapidly de-oxygenated during its initial contact with the filter media.
A larger volume filter will add more potential sites for biological filtration, but if the factor that is limiting nitrification is the oxygen supply, they will remain as potential, rather than actual sites. A filter which is extracting a large amount of faeces may become partially clogged, reducing flow and also essentially oxygen, with a “double whammy” as the bacteria degrading the organic materials now inhibit the nitrifying bacteria in the filter by competing with them for oxygen.
That is really why I like a pre-filter, it is easy to clean and it keeps everything other than the ammonia out of the filter.
Biological filtration is all about oxygen, and it was the problems that L number keeper were having with this issue which prompted me to write "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" <plecoplanet: Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium>.
cheers Darrel
It is from the plants themselves (via photosynthesis), but this is what bothers me about canister filters in non-planted situations (even though the owners aren't adding CO2).
Personally I would always have a wet and dry trickle filter given the choice, largely because of their huge gas exchange surface.
In planted tanks the situation is different, the plants themselves are both removing ammonia and CO2 from the water column, and adding oxygen via photosynthesis, and at the end of the photo-period the water is likely to be 100% saturated with oxygen.
Once photosynthesis stops, the situation changes and the plants become net producers of CO2 and consumers of oxygen. This is why it is safest to turn off the CO2 at night, mainly because of the "Bohr-Root" effect :< Fish Respiration>.
Have a look a this thread <Overnight CO2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society>
Another point is that I like a sponge pre-filter on all my filters, this has a number of advantages:
- It stops faeces and sand getting into the filter
- It provides some additional biological filtration,
- it is very easy to clean
- and it provides an extra browsing surface/ emergency source of rotifers etc (if you squeeze it out) for fry.
I want as much oxygen in my filter as possible, because the microbial conversion of NH3 - NO2 - NO3 is an oxygen intensive process:
NH3 + CO2 + 1.5 O2 → NO2- + CO2 + 0.5 O2 → NO3-
The ways of increasing oxygenation are basically by having a larger gas exchange surface (in something like a wet and dry trickle filter), increasing flow speed or adding oxygen via photosynthesising plants. Plants also offer the dual advantages of adding more sites for microbial action and removing NH3, NO2 and NO3 from the water.
An external power filter, containing a large volume of ceramic media or sintered glass, and with high water turnover volume (x 10 or more), may still be working at a fraction of its capacity, if the water is rapidly de-oxygenated during its initial contact with the filter media.
A larger volume filter will add more potential sites for biological filtration, but if the factor that is limiting nitrification is the oxygen supply, they will remain as potential, rather than actual sites. A filter which is extracting a large amount of faeces may become partially clogged, reducing flow and also essentially oxygen, with a “double whammy” as the bacteria degrading the organic materials now inhibit the nitrifying bacteria in the filter by competing with them for oxygen.
That is really why I like a pre-filter, it is easy to clean and it keeps everything other than the ammonia out of the filter.
Biological filtration is all about oxygen, and it was the problems that L number keeper were having with this issue which prompted me to write "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" <plecoplanet: Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium>.
cheers Darrel
weasel
Member
- Joined
- 6 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 70
Sounds good, i have a removable acrylic boxes ive made so i can run it under the tap..These are different materials, either a brush box with ultra fine brushes.. or medium grade sponge.. or fine sponge,these also keep any debris out of my bioside i also have aeration between the media cartridges which scrubs any old bacteria of the media making room for new..co2 is introduced into the sump and sent directly to the tank..
Most people seem to just have a canister filter injected with co2 travelling through the media which to me rendours the aerobic bacteria void, this means hetrotrophic bacteria would be more present in the bio side..ok plants are giving of oxygen,but through the night the bacteria would surely be starved of oxygen..to the ones who dont switch of the co2..
Most people seem to just have a canister filter injected with co2 travelling through the media which to me rendours the aerobic bacteria void, this means hetrotrophic bacteria would be more present in the bio side..ok plants are giving of oxygen,but through the night the bacteria would surely be starved of oxygen..to the ones who dont switch of the co2..
