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Whats the ultimate shoaling fish?

chump54

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28 May 2008
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Thorington, suffolk
samc said:
not sure if these have been mentioned but i bought some red eye tetra today and i really like them. they are shoaling very well at the moment and are much nicer than the pictures i have seen of them. very cool

I've got some too, they have shoaled well since day one are still shoal better than my black neons.

Chris
 

the fife flyer

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21 Dec 2009
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I have 50 or so Neons in my 600ltr tank and wouldn`t say they were a good shoaler. When they do though (normally just after lights-on) they look good. Albeit just for a few minutes.
 

gzylo

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11 Dec 2009
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the fife flyer said:
I have 50 or so Neons in my 600ltr tank and wouldn`t say they were a good shoaler. When they do though (normally just after lights-on) they look good. Albeit just for a few minutes.


Hi

Just put in the tank few large fish (discus or something) and they will shoal :)

I have 20 cardinal tetras with discus and they shoal - they do not however without discus in the tank


Thanks
gzylo
 

fourmations

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30 Aug 2008
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201
gzylo said:
Just put in the tank few large fish (discus or something) and they will shoal :)

I have 20 cardinal tetras with discus and they shoal - they do not however without discus in the tank

i wouldnt like to be a tetra in your tank!

this is the point, i am no fish species expert
but to my knowledge,
fish school because there is something wrong or they are scared

my rasbora hengeli dither around enjoying their own space
but when lights go off or there is a sudden noise etc etc... they school tightly

so the tighter the schooling the less relaxed your fish are.

its known that in the aquascaping contest game that fish are added
at the last minute, to enhance schooling, through nervousness

so you can bet your behind that gzylo's tetras are living in constant fear of the discus

am i wrong?

regards

4
 

Ed Seeley

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3 Jul 2007
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3,261
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Nottingham
fourmations said:
gzylo said:
Just put in the tank few large fish (discus or something) and they will shoal :)

I have 20 cardinal tetras with discus and they shoal - they do not however without discus in the tank

i wouldnt like to be a tetra in your tank!

this is the point, i am no fish species expert
but to my knowledge,
fish school because there is something wrong or they are scared

my rasbora hengeli dither around enjoying their own space
but when lights go off or there is a sudden noise etc etc... they school tightly

so the tighter the schooling the less relaxed your fish are.

its known that in the aquascaping contest game that fish are added
at the last minute, to enhance schooling, through nervousness

so you can bet your behind that gzylo's tetras are living in constant fear of the discus

am i wrong?

regards

4

I'm sorry but to an extent yes. You're personifying your tetras - they are small fish not little people in scaly bodies and they don't respond to things or necessaryily feel the same way we would about things. Rather than being 'in constant fear' they are aware of a potential threat and are taking appropriate actions. In the wild they would live like this almost constantly so you could say that he is providing more natural conditions for his fish instead.

Also fish don't just shoal as a response to threats, some also do it as part of feeding. Cardinals are a good example - they will shoal and try and overwhelm larger, spawning parental fish to eat their fry. I've seen them gang up on an apisto and eat it's fry.

Perhaps we could say, according to your arguements, that by not slowly dimming your lights you are subjecting your fish to a daily shock that scares them when your lights suddenly go off? :lol:
 

fourmations

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Joined
30 Aug 2008
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201
hi ed

thanks for the info,
i did open by dispelling any thoughts that i was an expert!

i do feel i have a point though, even if I was a bit dramatic!
schoolers are well know to "loosen out" after settling in,
and as glyxo has stated, his fish act a different way around the discus,

i've often wondered about the subject of natural environment and "the wild " in aquariums
i'm all for good conditions, providing cover and all the things that make life more comfortable
but when we take fish and put them in a glass box in a house being fed by humans etc etc
does the wild not go out the window?

on my own rasboras, i do not have the facility to dim unfortunately
but they are not plunged into complete darkness as there is a good
bit of ambient light around their tank

they get "tighter" regularly,
when normal maintenance, trimming, w/c's etc are being done

its a single species tank (apart from 3 oto's)
so I don't see any real habits in relation to feeding
or interaction with other species,

cheers

4
 

Ed Seeley

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3 Jul 2007
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3,261
Location
Nottingham
Yes disturbed they shoal more tightly but you can't apply human feelings to their motives behind this and saying things like 'scared' implies they are aware of fear and emotions such as that. They aren't and there's no evidence at all that they have the capacity to process such emotions. In fact there's evidence to the contrary but people don't like to hear that and prefer to think of them as little people in fishy bodies which they are not.
 

roadmaster

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18 Oct 2009
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1,442
Location
United States
I believe fish are conditioned to recognize that there is saftey in numbers. By schooling, or shoaling in the hundreds ,perhaps thousands , it makes it much more difficult for predators to single out any one fish save the weak ones, or sick ones. Even in large schools,the weak and sick are often subjected to harrassment by the stronger or more dominant fish. The usual minimum suggested group (six to eight) does not in my mind even come close to what one can see with larger groups with respect to schooling. A group of a two dozen or more from my observations ,is much more likely to result in fishes schooling than a mere six to eight fish. With the smaller numbers, some fish will be as mentioned,, subject to the hierarchy established in a closed system and may or may not school with others in this relatively small group.
I do believe fish from birth,have natural instinct to remain in cover such as floating plants both for safety from predation ,and often to feed from infusoria ,and or other organisims and or plant matter found there. Upturned mouths of liveberaers for example, suggest that through evolution they are inclined to migrate towards the surface for reasons stated. Not because of any particular threat they may or may not perceive.
I too believe some,,, place humanistic traits with fishes that just aren't present but As a fisherman, and hobbyist, I have observed that fish do flee from areas with little cover in the presence of larger fish and will hold tight to dense cover in presence of larger fish.Beleve it is instinct rather than actual immediate threat that governs this emotion if you wish to call it that.
 
Joined
9 Mar 2009
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303
i saw some of these at my lfs, they only had six and werent for sale, they supposed to be getting in a shipment early this year...

albino rummy noses or golden rummy noses, they have the same schooling behaviour as regular rummies but are a nice change in color:

3462627922_5ef1559e80.jpg
 

a1Matt

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10 Mar 2008
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2,497
Location
Bromley
I've said it before and I will say it again....

Rummies. love 'em love 'em love 'em! :thumbup: 8) :D Normal, asian, albino does not matter they really are the ultimate shoalers IME! :thumbup:

Not had a single other fish in 20 years that carries on shoaling once settled in.
 

frothhelmet

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Joined
1 Mar 2010
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425
Location
Oxford
Hmmm, I know Rummy noses are one of the best schoolers. I have read that Asian rummy noses however are not. Black neons are poor schoolers as they are some what territorial. In fact, any territorial tetra like the bleeding hearts, serpaes, Black Phantom etc will not school very well (unless they have a large fish in the tank perhaps). I have seen the ember tetras schooling well. Also, on a recent trip to MA St. Albans I was very impressed with the tight tight schooling and fast swimming of dwarf golden barbs. These are definitely something to look into for schooling behavior.

Oh, and we totally forgot. Corydoras generally are awesome schoolers. Someone mentioned otos which school well too.

And don't forget Nannostomus Eques! These guys school uber-tight without any external stimulus and swim super slow in an upright position. These guys might be the best pure-schoolers there are. Other pencils I don't have a lot of experience with, but Red Arc's and Trifasciatus are aggressive terrors and stake out territories rather than school. On the other hand Espei seems to shoal well in photos, but have not examined them live for any length of time.

For my money though, the most beautiful schoolers are rummy-nose.
 
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