When can I add amano shrimp and how many?

GreyFoxIndy

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my hair algae are going nuts! everywhere lol. trying to siphon it out, but voila, more shows up again.
 

alto

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I’d suggest Seachem Excel IF shrimp were more established and looking better - do they still look opaque?

At normal daily dosing levels you should see a reduction in algae and I’ve no had any shrimp losses under these conditions (as usual I dilute the Excel before adding) - note I’ve only used Excel (and according to Green Aqua observations not all the liquid carbon products are “equal”)

Maybe a read through of Green Aqua Algae Guide will give you some idea where you want to proceed
 

GreyFoxIndy

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will excel harm any plants? can I use excel in conjunction with all the other mentioned additives, can I use it with tnc complete?
 

alto

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I’ve never had any issue with plants at the recommended doses of Excel but some report issues with fine leaf plants such as R wallichii (mine was fine) and Vallisneria (I dosed Excel as the “carbon source” in a tank heavily planted with Tropica’s spiralis ‘Tiger’ - for years this plant was bound on complete world domination :eek:)

Note I have soft acidic tap water

But as mentioned I would not use Excel given the condition of your Amano Shrimps (as seen above), I also wouldn’t use Excel when new shrimp have been added to a tank

I’d wait for successful first moults on your Amano, then after 2-3 days, maybe begin with Excel dosing

You may find that adding a nitrogen binding resin is helpful

From a recent journal

Jasons Learning Curve

As you can see from the last image there are 4 swordtails temporarily in the tank as their old aquarium will be used for raising dart frog tadpoles. Anyways to get back on track they have been in there for a day now and it seems like they must eat green thread algae as it has drastically decreased since they have been added. I am not sure if they are known algae eaters but they haven't stopped pecking the plants and hardscape since being added.

It’s not unusual for various swords/black molly/guppy etc to pick away at algae especially when lightly fed otherwise
 
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GreyFoxIndy

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OK I know these kind of tests can be incorrect often, but, I've attached an image for you to see, I've correlated a lot of this with my api master test kit and more or less the same.

Some concerns this morning are that c02 is low, and carbonate hardness are high. And nitrates are high, that I knew about due to tank still cycling. I added two cap full of prime to help minimise that a bit.

Some notes, tank is heavily planted, with ada power sand and amazonia, seiryu stone, wood.

Bolbitis keeps dying, browning of leaves or faded/darkening of leaves.

When I did the test, it was morning prior to lights on, c02 switches on 2 hours before lights on at 11am. Today I aim to address the c02 concern by making sure that the drop checker hits lime green.

Because I have a hooded tank, made of oak and such, I can't easily fit a lilly pipe set with skimmer, so I'm using the Oase spray bar and outflow than came with the biomaster Thermo 600.

My spray bar goes along the length of my tank, right side till just after middle point, then a gap and then outflow On the very left, its in two parts to lengthen the bar. One I have aimed slightly higher to cause surface agitation, not too much mind, one is facing more into the tank diagonally downwards to create a flow. Is this advisable? Should I shorten the spray bar to one piece and aim up or down to increase flow?
 

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dw1305

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Hi all,
opaque looking shrimp is never a good sign
I'd agree with that, they should be translucent and not at all "milky". There isn't much you can do in terms of treatment, so I'd just keep an eye on them.

In the photo the Blyxa looks really pale, is it as pale as it looks? and do the new leaves look any greener?

dsc_2962-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
 

GreyFoxIndy

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I think some of these visibilitys are due my camera on my phone which tends to make things look more pale.

To my eye the shrimp look fine, that above picture was more or less the minute they were added to tank, they're not THAT opaque like in the photo. The blyxa is a maniac, grows like hell. I actually took some bkyxa out because it was going insane.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
To my eye the shrimp look fine, that above picture was more or less the minute they were added to tank, they're not THAT opaque like in the photo. The blyxa is a maniac, grows like hell. I actually took some bkyxa out because it was going insane.
That sounds promising so fingers crossed.

cheers Darrel
 

GreyFoxIndy

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Finding it hard to get the c02 right. This morning the drop checker was blue, so I raised my bubble count slightly, My drop checker has starting to go yellow. Reducing the bubble rate again.

I've mounted the spray bar to the side now, shortened it. The idea is to push water to the inlet which is on the opposite side. Seem good? Or should the inflow be the same side as the spray bar.

The closest I can get to a lily pipe positioned on the side of the tank. The holes are skimming the surface ever so slightly to cause some minor surface agitation, a visible mist of c02 decorates all the tank now, compared to before and pretty much all plants move compared to before where I felt I had dead spots.

Which way you reckon the holes should point? Horizontal, diagonally into the tank? Vertical?

The inlet is in the left back corner.
 

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Witcher

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Looking at the photo, I’m what concerned - opaque looking shrimp is never a good sign
If they looked like this immediately after you added them, it’s shipping related (or seller related)
I'd agree with that, they should be translucent and not at all "milky". There isn't much you can do in terms of treatment, so I'd just keep an eye on them.

Guys, don't you think they are preparing for molting? This process is very common after sudden change of water parameters - and @GreyFoxIndy 's shrimps are in new home now with new water etc. I know that shrimps usually hide before/while molting, but this tank is not heavily planted (yet) so we can see them.
 

GreyFoxIndy

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Update on the shrimps (day 3). They're all the same as yesterday. Active, eating, grazing, constantly working and doing a great job, just need a lot more to make an actual impact though. No issues to report. I can usually count around 6-7 out of the 10 I put in, but they hide so damn well. Either three are hiding really well to molt, or they died and I cannot find them.

But overall. I'm not worried they seem fine. So far, will keep monitoring.

If all stays this way, I'll add 15 more on Tuesday.
 

GreyFoxIndy

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I am pleased to say, the original batch of shrimp have totally gone glass see through.

Due to this, I have bought and added another 14 today. They are indeed a little milky like last time, I am hopeful that they too will adjust and become clear.

Lastly, I added 8 zebra nerite snails and my god, do they clean up or what??! Amazed how good they are. Nuts.

My tank feels alive now. Plenty of things to see.

Efforts paying off.
 
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I've mounted the spray bar to the side now, shortened it. The idea is to push water to the inlet which is on the opposite side. Seem good? Or should the inflow be the same side as the spray bar.

The closest I can get to a lily pipe positioned on the side of the tank. The holes are skimming the surface ever so slightly to cause some minor surface agitation, a visible mist of c02 decorates all the tank now, compared to before and pretty much all plants move compared to before where I felt I had dead spots.

Which way you reckon the holes should point? Horizontal, diagonally into the tank? Vertical?

The inlet is in the left back corner.
A potential issue with your new spray bar position is that there’s nothing forcing the water flow to visit the lower reaches of your tank. As it is now, assuming your holes are just below the surface and pointing horizontally, the water will skim along the surface along the length of the tank and will have lost most of its momentum by the time it reaches the opposite end. You’ll have good water movement near the surface, but nothing much lower down.

Your previous placement was more conventional, with the spray bar along the back wall just below the surface, with the holes pointing horizontally forwards. This means that the water reaches the front glass with plenty of spare momentum, and that carries the water downwards to the substrate where it still has enough momentum to make a further turn back towards the rear of the tank. Thus you’re giving water flow to all levels of the tank. If you wish, you can angle the holes very slightly above the horizontal to give more surface agitation, although you need to balance that against the slight loss of tank flow.

The only problem with your previous layout was that the spray bar wasn’t long enough to run the full length of the tank. If it’s not possible to buy extra lengths that you can join together with short bits of rubber tube, you could make your own spray bar by clamping a length of tubing or pipe and drilling holes. If you’re not confident with a drill then you could make holes by heating a metal skewer.

Making your own spray bar has the advantage that you can experiment with the number of holes and their diameter until you get the best flow and distribution. Too few holes, or too small, will restrict flow; too many holes, or too large, and too much water will exit at one end. You may find it best to err on the side of too few or too small, so the water exits the holes with enough speed to make the full circular flow I described above. When I made my spray bar I had several attempts before I got it about right!
 

GreyFoxIndy

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Today my shrimp are acting strange. Just sitting around not doing very much. Yesterday I added 14 new shrimp and 8 nerite snails. The snails seemed to have done an amazing clean up job. So that's excellent. But the shrimp. Seem to be very inactive and not grazing.

I tested my water and nitrate is at around 40ppm - 80ppm hard to tell with the api test kit. As you may know by now from reading this thread, the tank may not be fully cycled.

I decided to test my own tap water today, not sure why I didn't do this before.

But it tests at around 40ppm nitrate!

I'm a little flustered right now. What should I do?

I dosed a little extra prime today to help detoxify the tank.

I’d try a water change - if you want to be conservative, do 25%
If that seems to improve shrimp activity, do another 25% later (as in a couple hours or several hours)

Or do a 50% water change - with newly introduced shrimp I wouldn’t change more than 50%

Again, I’ve leave the filter running during the water change

I’d try a water change - if you want to be conservative, do 25%
If that seems to improve shrimp activity, do another 25% later (as in a couple hours or several hours)

Or do a 50% water change - with newly introduced shrimp I wouldn’t change more than 50%

Again, I’ve leave the filter running during the water change
Even though my tap water is 40ppm nitrate? I'm so worried, man.
 
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40 ppm NO₃ is on the high side for tapwater, but within the legal limit (which I believe is 50).

It’s also on the high side for an aquarium, but certainly not massively so. Definitely worth taking into consideration when doing your fertiliser calculation - you won’t need to add any NO₃ at all if you’re using 100% tapwater.

I agree with the suggestion of a water change. There may be something else (ammonia? nitrite?) that needs removing. Doing it 25% at a time is a good idea; I think I’d do 25% now and plan to do another 25% later today or first thing tomorrow.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Even though my tap water is 40ppm nitrate? I'm so worried, man.
Yes change some water. We don't know at what level NO3 becomes toxic, but it is a high level and almost certainly in the hundreds of ppm.

The NO3 in your tap water is exactly that already NO3, but in your tank some of that NO3 is the <"smoking gun"> from previously high levels of ammonia (NH3) and nitrite (NO2-), due to the increased bioload.

You need to remove, <"or detoxify">, any NH3 or NO2- as rapidly as possible.

cheers Darrel
 

GreyFoxIndy

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OK I done around 40 percent change water just now. They seem to have started grazing again, at least the few I can see.

So scary that was. I'll keep an eye on them still.

Thank you guys.

I also changed the spray back to its original configuration, going just over half way across the back.
 
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dw1305

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Hi all,
OK I done around 40 percent change water just now. They seem to have started grazing again, at least the few I can see.
That sounds promising. I'd probably keep changing a bit more water and make sure you have <"plenty of oxygen">, possibly via a bit more <"surface agitation">.

The last thing is don't remove any of the growing vegetation at the moment, <"more plant mass"> will definitely help reduce NH3, NO2- and NO3- levels.

cheers Darrel
 

GreyFoxIndy

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Hi all, That sounds promising. I'd probably keep changing a bit more water and make sure you have <"plenty of oxygen">, possibly via a bit more <"surface agitation">.

The last thing is don't remove any of the growing vegetation at the moment, <"more plant mass"> will definitely help reduce NH3, NO2- and NO3- levels.

cheers Darrel
I have the spray bar agitating the surface gently, holes going horizontal. I have Inline c02.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I have the spray bar agitating the surface gently. I have Inline c02.
You have to balance the increased level of CO2 out-gassing with the surface agitation.

It is easier for me, because I don't add CO2 and a larger gas exchange surface probably increases CO2 levels (via equilibrium with atmospheric levels), <"rather than depleting it">.

cheers Darrel
 

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