Where does the wood come from?

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It is that weird paradox of folk wanting something 'natural' in their home
I don't think folks want anything "natural". There's nothing natural about us keeping tropical fish in non-tropical climates, in glass or in my case plastic boxes, lol.
Folks want unique, something the others don't have, the "wow" factor they can boast about. Nature and habitat destruction is just something one reads on the news and forgets about.

We were in a local park the other day on a lovely day. The park is quite big with plenty of area to walk around. There are a couple of lakes and a river passing through. 80% of the people were sitting in the wooden tables and benches area, having a beer "in nature", grilling meat, making noise, throwing rubbish and generally messing up. That's nature experience for most people.

Our dog is totally not friendly with other dogs and we can't let her off the leash. Guess what, she had a massive stretch of a field for herself to run around like a lunatic as most people were sitting around where the "fuss and buzz" is, and the dogs standing there like tools.
 

Kezzab

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I know what you mean, thats why i put natural in commas .

But ive read so many times on here people talk abou their 'slice of nature' or similar, and we talk about Nature Aquariums etc and we, aquascapers, are inspired by natural habits but then dont question the impact of our hobby on other natural habitats.

Yes, im sure many people just dont give a blahblahblahblah but i also think a lot of people in the hobby do have an affinity for the natural world, but they ve never just stopped to think.

Im no saint in this regard, but im trying and i think we need to make people ask more questions and think about how we minimise our hobby's contribution to the degredation of the planet.
 

zozo

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In our northern hemisphere fish evolved in relative cold waters during the biggest part of the year far bellow 10°C. Since fish are cold blooded their metabolisme is highly depended on this invironmental temperatur. If they are kept permanently in higher temp conditions for example indoors the biggest part of the year above 15°C and higher. Their metabolism will triple in speed and not only age and burn up their lifecycle 3 times faster but also require more food and polute the water a lot faster. A hot summer with a heatwave, 8 weeks water temps above 25°C in small tank can be deadly.

A Stickleback for example in natural invironment can live up to 4 years the very strong maybe 6 in cold streams. In small captive invironmnets averagely less than 1 year.
 

mort

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Yes, im sure many people just dont give a blahblahblahblah but i also think a lot of people in the hobby do have an affinity for the natural world, but they ve never just stopped to think.
I think we also have to consider that it simply isn't publicised. If we bought a pet/decor here we would assume that it has been bred or collected in a responsible manner. Unfortunately this isn't always the case now and the same can definitely be said for other parts of the world. So we kind of sit in a happy ignorance until we discover something is wrong.
Our hobby will always have an impact even if we collect our own materials but I do think it has a more positive aspect as well. With our reefs we know that by sustainably collecting fish and corals we place a "value" on them for local people which means they maintain them rather than dynamite fish, or remove rock for roads or building. The same applies to aquaculture and I think it's this that helps promote ecological management.
 

dean

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we humans collect stuff from plastic traffic cones to real live Elephants and everything in between it’s a bit weird when you think about that
But we have always brought in things from nature to our homes to decorate them such as holy and ivy during cold northern winters way before it was a Christmas thing
Now it’s much easier to decorate our homes with exotic and unusual items such as aquaria without thinking about how the items were sourced

I get videos sent to me from fish collectors and one that I don’t agree with is the amount of clown loach taken from the wild knowing that they will never grown to full size in the average home aquarium and most will simply die, and because there are so many collectors and the fish are easy to catch the price is on average is only $0.50 (USD)

Another thing I find strange about aquascaping is why do a lot of designs try to replicate terrestrial scenes instead of celebrating aquatic ones ? Mountains scenes especially seen favourite, therefore the need to use rock that is taken from mountains etc by the tonne and shipped around the world
What is the ecological cost of this ?
What is the cost to the planet of the average aquarium or aquascape ? Tropical fish flown half way across the planet, hardcore ripped from tropical forests, mountains, beeches, quarries, not to mention how the “special” substrate raw materials are from or how it’s made

So unless we are breeding endangered species to repopulate the wild habitat or educating people about aquatic life can we say honestly hand on heart or hobby is eco friendly?

No, I can’t say that

When I first got into fish keeping in the 70’s there was no thought at all about any of this it was an age of discovery, wildlife programmes, all glass aquaria, heaters, special aquarium lighting all dazzling things I could spend my pocket money on or put on my list for birthdays or Christmas


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zozo

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When I first got into fish keeping in the 70’s there was no thought at all about any of this it was an age of discovery, wildlife programmes, all glass aquaria, heaters, special aquarium lighting
all dazzling things I could spend my pocket money on or put on my list for birthdays or Christmas
Once i red a significant quote from <Konrad Lorenz> a famous Austrian Zoologist and it got me thinking in a different direction.

"Each single cared to death Stickleback contributed more to wildlife preservation than any sign at the wildlife park entrance ever did."
In a way he is spot on and indeed i can reflect myself in this. Because it took quite some failures and death to finaly learn and understand how fragile an aqautic biotope actualy is. Without this experience i would never be able to share and pass this knowledge on to the next generation and hopefully trigger them to learn more about it and appriciate it even more. :)

That is what this quote is all about... Morbidity of science in a positive perspective..
 

Ed Wiser

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I think at some time wood and rock will become an environmental issue. Just as corals and live rock became one in saltwater end of the hobby. Most of the corals have been banned from collection as well as mariculture in Indo for the past year. Making the cost of corals rise even higher and many corals are not even found for sale any more. Luckly plants can be grown and many plants that we use are farmed Buce is perhaps the one that is just starting to transition from wild collecting to farming. But rock and Wood is in the same boat as Live rock and even more so as Live rock is farmed in Florida.
 

Marc Jackson

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It's all well and good for us to stamp up and down and shout "Stop rainforest destruction." It is up to the governments of the countries concerned to get a grip and create tough new laws to punish and deter those responsible. If the governments are to blame then international sanctions are required. Why there are adverts on UK TV asking for money to be sent is beyond me, this has nothing to do with things.
 

Ed Wiser

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It's all about money really. People have to make a living and if they make money by cutting down forest and putting in a cash crop that is what they will do. It is really how does one promote the "rainforest" and give those people living there a sustainable living. People need "money" families need to eat.
 

Marc Jackson

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It's all about money really. People have to make a living and if they make money by cutting down forest and putting in a cash crop that is what they will do. It is really how does one promote the "rainforest" and give those people living there a sustainable living. People need "money" families need to eat.
Point taken but what's to stop any of us going round major towns and cities using a chainsaw to cut down parking meters for the cash inside? Then falling back on the argument that my family needs to buy food.
 

PARAGUAY

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It's all about money really. People have to make a living and if they make money by cutting down forest and putting in a cash crop that is what they will do. It is really how does one promote the "rainforest" and give those people living there a sustainable living. People need "money" families need to eat.
Thats the issue wealthy countrys should help the people who in most cases have no way of making a decent life without whatever it is a Palm Oil plantation or agricultural deforestation and we should then ask ourselves if as an example Palm Oil should only be used from sustainable sources and the logging the same.We are not fooled by petrochemical industries spending thousands on adverts to say they look after the enviroment while polluting water sources in the rainforests and destrying habitats forever
 

dean

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I’ve always wondered if it was possible to buy the rain forest ?
Surely there’s enough people around the world to contribute and buy it
But then the problem is how to protect it

The locals need to eat etc
There needs to be a way for locals to make money without destroying it

Eco tourism ?
Yes I know if you increase flights etc you may as well cut down the trees



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PARAGUAY

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It is possible Charles Hamilton James bought 100 acres off the Peruvian goverment rubber stamped in an office somewhere in Lima. He wanted to preserve it but the authorities failed to mention it was occupied by drug barons and local native Indians continued to fell trees and received a pittance from some illegal company in offices somewhere. These native tribes had been and looked after their home in the rainforest and the rainforest for generations but were pushed into poverty by speculators and authority, Hamilton James discovered the grim truth and ended up feeling a real sense of sorrow for them. These things and solutions are not always clear cut
 

Marc Jackson

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We must all live by our decisions and choices in life; it is knowing right from wrong. Although what the heck this has to do with Bogwood is beyond me. o_O Just sit me in the corner with a cuppa tea and a digestive. :facepalm:
 

zozo

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Sorry.... I disagree. Now back to sawing parking meters to feed my poor family.
You probably would need to do that if all the wealthy thriving first world nations stopped importing/exploiting recources from 3th world countries. I don't think Europe would be able to sustain itself on self produced resources.. Since 90% of all primal forests in Europe are cut down in history.. To build vast urban regions inhabbitet by to many people per km². Colonial exploitation is inevitable to keep such vast decadent urban societies running. We no longer can run this with our own recources.. If we would try, it will probably take less than 6 weeks for the complete system to crash..

Starting with people sawing parking meters, once they are all empty and gone than millions of peopel will run into the forest to hunt rabbits. But hence all primal forest are gone, resulting in 100 rabbits to catch to feed 10.000 mouths. There would be so many people in the forest shooting rabbits, than when you take a shot it is more likely to hit your neighbour hunter than a rabbit. And if you manage to shoot one you likely will be shot by the hunter after you because he wants your rabbit.

In the end i think we would end up trying to eat parking meters.. :thumbup:
 

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