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Wonderful Proserpinaca palusstris cuba

H..

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...one plant is right amongst some branches, the other behind a large rock. This will manifest itself in co2 related deficiencies as the light from above will be equally as strong yet the plants won't have good access to the levels of carbon and other ferts that the rest of the plants in the tank do. The effects will be worsened with a plant that is greedy for co2.
Ady

As you can see the plant is not behind the rock. all 3 groups are very nearly together.

H.
 

H..

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Here im pointing out the same plants from the earlier picture to make it more visible
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ceg4048

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As Ady mentions, melting means poor CO2. And that's the complete analysis. So now you need to fix it instead of looking for reasons why it shouldn't be CO2. If you don't want to adjust the length of your spraybar to get better distribution then increase the injection rate.

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Ady34

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Here is the setup from above

And it is filtered with unimax 500, slightly overkill. aproximtly 25 liter filtercannister. together with the aquarium it will be aprox 75 liters of water, all calculations are made to 75 liters of water, but it is still an 54 liter tank.

Iwould say that the circultion of water is not underestimated. The outlet is pointing towards the co2 outlet to try and make it give good resolutio, thats why the outlet is so long.

H.
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Hi H,
i wasnt trying to suggest and underestimation of circulation capabilities of your filter, but an issue with how it is distributed. If you have the same species of plant within the same aquarium under the same lighting, and some are performing more poorly than others, this points to a distribution issue.
Im guessing from what you have said that that is not a spraybar, but an extended pipe to get greater flow onto the diffuser. Im no expert on the forces of water but i think this way you will get a lot of wasted energy as the water will be forced downwards when it hits the right side panel, instead of creating a nice circular pattern around your tank. It may be better, if you dont want to use a full length spraybar, to infact shorten the return pipe so that there is less force at the right hand side, and more draw from the left. This way you may increase the efficiency of your filter rating and create a better circular flow pattern.....somebody else may be able to add science to agree/disagree with this.
You could also try placing your diffuser directly under the inlet pipe of your filter so that c02 is drawn through your filter and distributed with the flow pattern from it.
It looks like the worst effected plant is the one to the very left of your picture, tucked in amongst the wood. Looking at your set up this is likely to be the area of least water movement, there is also has a large upright branch with hc on the top to block flow, so may go some way to explaining its issues. I notice also that the hc at the very left hand side seems less full than the rest so again may highlight a flow issue here.
The plant that is doing well just left of centre most likely receives a good flow of co2 and nutrients as there is nothing to block its path.
Of course it is difficult to see from a photo exactly what is happening with the circulation in your tank, a video could help, but it certainly to me points to distribution. With high light intensity, it is even more vital to have good all over distribution as any failings are quickly highlighted with struggling plants.
Cheerio,
Ady.
 

H..

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you are right about the spraybar, it isnt an spraybar, it is just an outlet and its pointing towards the diffusor and makes the bubbles circulate better than when it was shorter. The cannister filter is capabel of 2000 liters / hour, but is turned down to at least the half capacity.
I still have very difficult to belive that it should have to be the circuation that is what matters, when the two plants stand with no more than 5 cm of water in between. BUT i will connect the spraybar to blow from one side to the other from the top left of the aquarium to blow it to the top right just so that the issue can be outnumbered.

I will trim the co2 again in the next 2 -3 days to achive good levels again on the droppchecker. They have been so high that 3 of amanochrimps have colapsed and got "dizzzy" due to what i think is CO2 toxicity. I have found them lying on their back and when i took them to an other waterquality they got sover.

Now what do you think of my fert dosings? are they correctly calculated?
4 week, or 28 doses)
KNO3 --- 7,4 ml
KH2PO4 --- 1,2 ml
K2SO4 --- 7,48 ml
MgSO4 --- 9,4 ml

N - 20ppm
P-3ppm
K- 30ppm

this will give me 25,48 ml and should last for 28 days if dosing 0,91 ml each day. or 6,37ml once a week if you like
Iron 0,94 ml twise a week

H.
 

H..

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ceg4048

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Well, I mean, I think the dosing numbers look fine, but it doesn't matter one iota what I think, or what Heeke thinks. It only matters what BGA thinks. If you dose those numbers, and if it prevents BGA from returning, then they are good. If BGA stays in the tank then they are bad.

I still have very difficult to belive that it should have to be the circuation that is what matters, when the two plants stand with no more than 5 cm of water in between
Well, again, you are still trapped by numbers. What if it has nothing to do with the distance? What if one plant is simply weaker than the other, or is less competent at CO2 processing? Then it might not matter where in the tank it is. But, redistributing the CO2 may push more CO2 in it's direction, and in that case, 5 cm can make a difference.

It's precisely because you cannot believe, that causes you these problems. You think you can solve your problems with numbers alone and that simply isn't true. You thought you needed a certain number of megawatts per liter and you plants suffered. How did they improve? They improved when you threw the number away. Then you couldn't believe that BGA should happen because you were using some dosing number from some numerical website that was supposed to be perfect. I guarantee you that when you throw those numbers away and dose NO3 like crazy BGA will go away. I won't even care what new number it will be because it will be more important that you recognize when you need more of a nutrient and understand when you can get away with less. Now you can't believe that some number, 5cm separation makes a difference.

So you'll just throw up the spraybar just to prove that 5cm doesn't make a difference, which is the worst mental approach you can possibly have. Achieving good flow is more involved than just doing something to prove a point. You need to increase the flow rate and maintain a certain flow pattern that delivers nutrients and CO2 to the plants evenly and efficiently. You have to observe how the plant leaves move in the breeze. This tells you how they are receiving the water. If it is not satisfactory then you may have to try moving the spraybar to the back wall for example, or you may have to increase the flow rate. The orientation of the holes in the spraybar are very important. If you point them too much up or too much down then you affect the distribution. A few degrees too much up or down can make a difference, simply because of the way that water moves in a container. This is not something you can punch into a calculator and get an instantaneous result, so you should be prepared to have patience, to use your powers of observation, to use your eyes and brain, and to use trial and error. Numbers extracted from some calculator cannot help you solve this riddle.

Cheers,
 

H..

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An uppdate on the palustris.

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H.
 

H..

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Well as you can see on the above pictures, the PP is melting again. Im so saad that it does not thrive although I tryed to do what ive been requested.

All other plants are thriving and bubbling. Ive killed probably ten amanos in co2, phosphate and/or nitrate intoxicity.

what else can i do but trying an optional plant? Red color is what i lack in the scape.

H.
 

H..

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I hawe been thinking hard for som weeks, but it stroke me just now that, what if temperature has something to do with my problems. It has been quite warm some days (mostly) due to that the ligtings generate high temperature, mostly over 28 dgrs C, and cooling down during the night and again gaining temperature when lights go on. But it might have got over 30 dgrs C sometimes. I have no extra heater.

H.
 

ceg4048

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Possibly. Again, try to reduce the lighting as much as you can which will help with the temperature as well as reduce the stress on the plants. If you had reduced the CO2 then it's not surprising that the problems returned.

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nayr88

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That's a shame it's melting again

I have this plant
When I received it the colour was amazing! Very nice reddish colour.
Now the new shoots in my tank are all green. Very healthy looking but green.
I have very high co2
Dose full EI with iron
Dose liquid carbon
Nutrient base and subbase
750lph of uniform flow in a 30l
Lifting is 24w t5 2xwhite(ish) 1xpink..ish
And my temp is around 25

I don't understand PPM this and that so I just dose what I am instructed from a sponcer
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H..

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I just cut them off and threw them in the trash!
blahblahblahblah them for now in the 54 liter can. They are thriving in another tank so I can try them later, and in the top of that tank the PAR must be even more than in this tank, ehh!?!?

I am lack off power to do more with them for now, even if I love them for their beautiful leafs.

Every other plant in the tank is bubbling, but PP. It melts down as soon it gets halfway up the can.

Did try less light intensity-48watts per 54 liters- no effect.
Did try more co2- killed amano shrimps- and PP melted down
Did try more PO4 - killed more amanos- and PP melted down
Did try more PMDD - killed the even more amanos- and PP melted down.
Did try more water flow - even killed some ottocinclus- and PP melted down.

Charging batterys...

H.
 
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