Yellowing/Dying carpet in new tank - High tech - 17 gallon

quixote_1989

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Yellowing/Dying carpet in new tank - High tech - 17 gallon

Hello All,

This is my first post in the forum. But I have been reading threads here for quite a while now.
Would love to get some advise on the 'problem' I am seeing in my new tank.

First, the specs->

Dimension-> 24*12*15 (same as ADA 60P, I guess)
Volume-> approx 15 gal effective
Substrate-> Amazonia, with a layer of the powdered variety on top of the 'carpet' area.
Light-> Sanrise LED, 39 watt (78*0.5W)
Filter-> Eheim 2215
CO2-> Pressurized, 2 bps approx
Ferts-> Tropica Specialized
Water-> RO mixed with tapwater (approx 150-200 TDS after mixing)

Photoperiod-> 5 hr with LED brightness set to 75%, since the tank is newly set up (2-3 days)
Fertilizer dosing-> about 1 - 2 pumps every day.
Water temperature-> around 28 degrees Celcius

Plants->
1) Monte Carlo
2) Marsilea Hirsuta
3) Hydrocotyle Tripartita
4) Staurogyne repens
5) Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
6) Ludwigia Arcuata (or, Brevipes)
7) Heteranthera Zosterifolia
8) Anubias Nana Petite
9) Lilaeopsis Braziliensis

Disclamer:
> It's been only about 2 days since I have planted the tank, so I might be getting too hasty. But wanted to get the community opinion anyways.


The problem is,
Monte carlo & Marsilea aren't looking that great. Lots of yellowing, dying plants in the bunch.

Here's a full tank shot->
4cifaO8.jpg

Zoomed in showing the MC, it shows the yellowing to a certain extent. But I will attach better pics if necessary.
feztTbr.jpg


I had tried to plant all the foreground ones by separating the full bunches as much as possible, to the point where I was almost handling individual plantlets.

Additonally, the Marsilea came in its emeresed form, which was rather tall. So, for the most part, I had cut them up and planted both the top half(the four leaf with the stalk) as well as the bottom half(the runner/root section) separately. Was this a mistake?

Also, I had ended up ordering too much plants, so I tried to fit them all.
Could this potentially be a problem? Is 'overplanting' a thing?

So, TLDR version:
> Newly set up high tech tank shows a lot of yellowing/dying in Monte Carlo and Marsilea Hirsuta.
> Looking for opinions/suggestion on the same. Is this just the plants trying to adjust from emersed to submerged form? Or does it indicate any deficiency?

Would really appreciate any advice y'all can provide.
 

Jayefc1

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I think for a start it's just a lil bit of transition for the mc the temp sounds very high to me if I'm not mistaken most run there tanks around 22 just warm enough for the fish but a good temp for the plant and the co2 dissolves better at this temp I cant see a drop checker in the tank so there might be co2 issues is there a little wave to the plants from your flow.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
So, for the most part, I had cut them up and planted both the top half(the four leaf with the stalk) as well as the bottom half(the runner/root section) separately. Was this a mistake?
You need to take out all the four leaved tops, they don't have the power to re-root, the "stems" below the "leaf" are the rhachis (part of the leaf). New growth may grow from the rhizomes, it will depend what nutrient reserves exist (now the photosynthetic leaf part has gone). Marsilea is a fern, so new leaves (fronds) will unfurl.

The Micranthemum tweediei "Monte Carlo" could go either way. I think a lot of the leaves are going to fall off before it decides whether it is going to live or die. You need to syphon them up as they die.
mc the temp sounds very high to me if I'm not mistaken most run there tanks around 22 just warm enough for the fish but a good temp for the plant and the co2 dissolves better at this temp I cant see a drop checker in the tank so there might be co2 issues
I'm going to assume the 28oC results from living in Bangalore? but you do need a <"drop checker"> to tell you how much CO2 you have.
Is 'overplanting' a thing?
It is, and you have.

You could try growing some of the spare plants emersed @KarthikC has <"done this">, and he is also in Bangalore. It would also give you some spares if the submerged ones die.

cheers Darrel
 

quixote_1989

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I think for a start it's just a lil bit of transition for the mc the temp sounds very high to me if I'm not mistaken most run there tanks around 22 just warm enough for the fish but a good temp for the plant and the co2 dissolves better at this temp I cant see a drop checker in the tank so there might be co2 issues is there a little wave to the plants from your flow.
Yeah, it's kinda peak summer over here now, so the temp is on the higher side. Yes, there is decent flow throughout the tank.


Hi all, You need to take out all the four leaved tops, they don't have the power to re-root, the "stems" below the "leaf" are the rhachis (part of the leaf). New growth may grow from the rhizomes, it will depend what nutrient reserves exist (now the photosynthetic leaf part has gone). Marsilea is a fern, so new leaves (fronds) will unfurl.
Thanks, will do this right away.

The Micranthemum tweediei "Monte Carlo" could go either way. I think a lot of the leaves are going to fall off before it decides whether it is going to live or die. You need to syphon them up as they die. I'm going to assume the 28oC results from living in Bangalore? but you do need a <"drop checker"> to tell you how much CO2 you have.
Spot on.
And yes, I was planning to get a drop checker. Will do so today.

It is, and you have.
Dammit :(
I thought I would be minimizing the chances of algae by planting heavily.


Really appreciate the responses. Thank you both!
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I thought I would be minimizing the chances of algae by planting heavily.
A <"high plant mass"> definitely helps, I think the problem in this case is because you are potentially going to have a lot of dying leaves, amongst a tangle of vegetation.

Most people use an <"easy quick growing stem">, or floating plants, during the tank establishment phase. I'm a <"great floating plant fan">, mainly because they have access to 400ppm of atmospheric CO2.

The plants in your tank are unlikely to be nutrient deficient, but even when you add CO2 its concentration is at an order of magnitude lower than you get in the atmosphere.

cheers Darrel
 

quixote_1989

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Hi all, A <"high plant mass"> definitely helps, I think the problem in this case is because you are potentially going to have a lot of dying leaves, amongst a tangle of vegetation.

Most people use an <"easy quick growing stem">, or floating plants, during the tank establishment phase. I'm a <"great floating plant fan">, mainly because they have access to 400ppm of atmospheric CO2.

The plants in your tank are unlikely to be nutrient deficient, but even when you add CO2 its concentration is at an order of magnitude lower than you get in the atmosphere.

cheers Darrel
Question about floating plants- won't they block the light for the rest?
And, do they work well with the water flow from the filter?
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Question about floating plants- won't they block the light for the rest?
They will to some degree, you have plenty of light intensity so it shouldn't be a problem. You can <"corral them"> in one area if you don't wan't them to wander around the tank.
And, do they work well with the water flow from the filter?
If they go around and around in circles that is fine, if they end piled up along one wall of the tank it probably isn't going to work.

cheers Darrel
 

quixote_1989

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Location
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Hi all, They will to some degree, you have plenty of light intensity so it shouldn't be a problem. You can <"corral them"> in one area if you don't wan't them to wander around the tank. If they go around and around in circles that is fine, if they end piled up along one wall of the tank it probably isn't going to work.

cheers Darrel
Thanks for all the answers, really appreciate it.
 

quixote_1989

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Location
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Update:

So.. here's the current situation in the tank-
  • Monte Carlo seems to producing new growth. But a lot of it is dead and frankly, it looks ugly. Wondering if I should just get rid of it or stick with it.
  • Ludwigia Arcuata has completely melted away, took it all out yesterday. This is the second time I have failed with this plant .
  • Lilaeopsis B is.. kinda stuck. Some melts here and there, and no sign of growth whatsoever.
The positives:
  • Decent growth in Marsilea. @dw1305 - you were spot on! The root parts are all producing new growth, and quite fast I would say. I am taking out all the top halves gradually.
  • Stargrass looked dead in the beginning, and some of the stems are indeed dead. But the rest is producing decent new growth. Cut off some tips and replanted them today.
  • Hydrocotyle is the star of the tank. This bugger is growing fast! #feelssogood

  • Staurogyne looks alright, but no perceivable growth yet. Some dust type algae on the leaves, but not too bad.
  • Alternanthera Reineckii showed good signs of growth but not much progress since then. But they look healthy.

Have upped my dosing. Alternating between two pumps of Tropica Specialized and Premium every day. Will cut down if required.
Photoperiod still at 5 hours. Will increase by 30 mins from tomorrow.
Light at 80%, approx 30 watts.
Water change every 2 days.

Temperature varies between 27 to 29 degrees (when lights are on).
Should I get a cooling fan? With the low humidity, it will reduce 2-3 degrees I think. But I'll have to deal with the evaporation.
 
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