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C02 injection with already low ph

@X3NiTH , a couple of of questions if I may. How stable is the CO2 with the controller, and do you keep it on 24/7, so that CO2 is only shut off when it reaches the programmed pH value?

In the above instance two pH controllers were being used, one controlled CO2 and the other Air. One of the controllers could be set to reverse operation ie ‘turn on power’ when a set pH point was reached. The CO2 was dialled in so it never reached the set point to turn off the gas so it flowed continuously and evenly (traditional on off with a CO2 controller if graphed will show a sawtooth pattern of on off cycles, some may constitute this as instability) and only fluctuated if the controller controlling an air pump to create disturbance off-gassing a little CO2 was triggered.

The above was an experiment, I only run a single controller now. I always switch off the gas overnight but I feel it would be an unnecessary risk running CO2 24/7 if not on a controller because if you are aiming for a lime green/yellow drop checker to maximise plant growth and your tank occupants are near the cusp off toleration to the current levels but behaving normally, when plants start respiring in the dark period they may release enough CO2 and uptake of O2 to go beyond the toleration capacity of the animals and they will suffer stress from hypercapnia or at the worst asphyxiation.

I’m super cautious now running CO2 using any modality and especially controllers having lost an entire tank of inhabitants to fitting to the CO2 controlling controller a brand new calibrated pH probe that when CO2 came on in the morning (the morning after fitment and calibration outside a CO2 controlling period) read counter to the increasing acidity in the tank and never reached the set point to switch off CO2, kept pumping it in, came home to the gas still running, the controller reading somewhere between ph8 and 9 and the entirety of the tank inhabitants floating motionless on the surface, utterly devastating.

:-/
 
Appreciate the answer Andy. But I do believe that actually is how it works for most of us when we measure pH with test kits such as the API pH kit or similar reagent based hobby kits - the pH is essentially derived from alkalinity. Your absolutely right with respect to EC based pH measurements, but the wast majority of hobbyists are not measuring pH that way. Anyway, always appreciate your insights!
Oh wow, I hadn't thought of that. With the availability of inexpensive pH pens I sort of assumed most people would be measuring pH electrically. :confused:
 
Hi all,
I'll go back and edit that bit.
Edited - <"C02 injection with already low ph">
But I do believe that actually is how it works for most of us when we measure pH with test kits such as the API pH kit or similar reagent based hobby kits - the pH is essentially derived from alkalinity. Your absolutely right with respect to EC based pH measurements, but the wast majority of hobbyists are not measuring pH that way.
Oh wow, I hadn't thought of that. With the availability of inexpensive pH pens I sort of assumed most people would be measuring pH electrically.
Same for me, it hadn't really occurred to me. Now @MichaelJ has mentioned it, he is obviously right.

A thought occurs this also allows you to <"sell the same reagents"> as two "different" test kits, for "dKH" and "pH"...............
<"Unscrupulous vendors"> will try and imply that "Remineralisers" and "Fertilisers" are different products, but they aren't. There is absolutely no difference between a magnesium (Mg++) ion from a fertiliser or a remineraliser, ions don't know <"where they came from">.

cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,
Now most of the carbonate is in the form of only carbonic acid H2CO3 which being uncharged doesn't contribute much to conductivity.
One more question. Is the H2CO3 going to disassociate into a proton (H+) and bicarbonate ion (HCO3-)? And the pH fall is actually because of the addition of the H+ ion? and both it and the HCO3- ion will contribute to the conductivity (because they are ions)?

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
I’m super cautious now running CO2 using any modality and especially controllers having lost an entire tank of inhabitants to fitting to the CO2 controlling controller a brand new calibrated pH probe that when CO2 came on in the morning (the morning after fitment and calibration outside a CO2 controlling period) read counter to the increasing acidity in the tank and never reached the set point to switch off CO2, kept pumping it in, came home to the gas still running, the controller reading somewhere between ph8 and 9 and the entirety of the tank inhabitants floating motionless on the surface, utterly devastating.
I just couldn't run CO2. I'd never recover from that.

cheers Darrel
 
One more question. Is the H2CO3 going to disassociate into a proton (H+) and bicarbonate ion (HCO3-)? And the pH fall is actually because of the addition of the H+ ion? and both it and the HCO3- ion will contribute to the conductivity (because they are ions)?
At low pH (below 6) the H2CO3 stays in the form of H2CO3* and does not dissociate into H+ and HCO3-. Adding H+ ions makes pH fall, but the conductivity piece is tricky because you can't just add H+, there is always a counterion added as well. For example, if you lower pH by adding HCl, you have increased free H+ (which is conductive) and also increased free Cl- (which is also conductive).

*there is also an equilibrium between H2CO3 <-> H2O + CO2. This equilibrium strongly favours the CO2 form.
 
Hi all,
I don’t think the reagents in universal indicator paper, for example, measure alkalinity.
I think they measure alkalinity, it is back to @Andy Pierce's post <"earlier in the thread">.

They are "universal" because the paper was prepared with a range of pH indicators, that have different pH responses <"pH Paper and other Test Strips | Fisher Scientific">.

If you have an idea of what the pH is likely to be <"How to check your drop checker...."> you can get "narrow range pH indicator papers", these are likely to be more accurate (assuming you have the right pH range to start with) - <"Chart of pH Indicator Ranges">.

Personally, I don't inject CO2 and I don't need to know real time pH measurements, so the <"snail-shell index"> works for me.

cheers Darrel
 
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