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Staurogyne Repens Is it a Deficiency or Nitrate Overdose Pics Included!!

kingdamm

kingdamm

Seedling
Joined
1 Mar 2013
Messages
20
Location
Trivandrum, India
Hi Friends,

My four feeter planted aquarium is about 40 days old with New ADA Amazonia substrate with Powersand.

All the plants are doing exceptionally good other than Staurogyne Repens.

On initial planting of Staurogyne they stay pretty green for about a week.No Stunted growth found,but their leaves turn Grey/black in color looked like burned often..I plucked them all and planted the fresher ones, still the same problem occurs..No idea watz going on..:(
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Water Parameters

PH - 6.2 on injection of Co2

GH - 6

KH - 3

Nitrate : 40-50 ppm

Phosphate : Iam dosing a bit more than 3ppm ..About 6-7ppm to overcome Green spot Algae on glass.

Filtration : Canister 1600L/hr Circulation Power head 1100L/hr Hang on Filter 1100L/hr

Lighting : Led 100w 7000k

Photo period : 8hrs

Iam upping the pics of them.Kindly guide me..

Thanks..
 
Hi mate,
I am not an expert butI think that it is diatomic algae, when you wipe it does it goes off easily ?? If so than that means you have too much light for a starting tank or too long photoperiod.
Try to reduce your light by raising it, or by putting some thing on top of tank that will reduce a bit light and reduce photoperiod to 6 hours. this will help.
Can we have some pic of the complete set up please ?

hope some one more expert will confirm what I am saying.
cheers
 
Agree with Zanguli on the diatoms and perhaps looks like some fuzz algae as well. Brown diatoms are nothing to be alarmed about and is very common in a new set up and usually caused by excess phosphates. Is it not on your glass and rocks as well, if not then it might not be diatoms ? The good thing is your new leaves don't have it so a good sign.. if it bothers you ancistrus or otos will quickly send the diatom army scampering while your system matures
 
Trevor Pleco said:
Brown diatoms are nothing to be alarmed about and is very common in a new set up and usually caused by excess phosphates.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this is not true at all. Diatoms are caused by excess light, so, because everybody thinks it's caused by excess PO4 and because they always have excess light, diatoms then become a common problem.

Cheers,
 
Clive, you do agree that it's diatoms or are we wrong for starters ? :)

Surely diatoms are not just caused by excess lights, but also an excess of silicates, nitrates or phoshates, as is common in new systems. It's not technically an algae understand. Brown diatoms also occur in low light tanks, well it has in mine..?

When you say it's 'not true at all', are you suggesting then that diatoms are 'something to be alarmed about' ? I've really never hassled about them after many years of keeping aquariums, as it usually lasts just a couple of weeks.
 
I cannot tell if this is diatomic bloom. The OP can tell simply by attempting to wipe the stain off. If it is easily removed, then there is a high probability that it is diatomic. If the stain does not wipe off then it is GSA.

Diatoms are caused by excess light and is exacerbated by poor flow and CO2. Diatoms do not care about the presence of NO3, Silicates, or PO4. These particular nutrients do not cause algae...EVER. So people who continue to blame nutrients for problems will continue to have problems and will deserve it. Algae is only ever caused by nutrient deficiency, and in some cases, by the NH4/NH3 loading rate.

Algae do not care about nutrients, but plants do.

When people define low light, then they better have a PAR meter handy because it's not possible to tell what is truly low from a plants standpoint with the filters of the human visual cortex.

Having said that, there are low light scenarios where diatomic blooms occur on tank startup and that is caused by poor flow, poor CO2 and poor development of bacterial colonies. These combinations trigger the life cycle of diatoms, however, normally they go away after a few weeks by themselves.

However, if diatomic blooms occur well into the startup period, such as in this case, 5 weeks, then it tells you immediately that excessive lighting is the cause.

If the OP can confirm the diatomic bloom then it's a simple matter to perform a 3 day blackout and then, upon resumption of the lighting, the intensity must be reduced significantly.

High intensity lighting without proper attention to flow and CO2 always causes problems. We have been seeing this ever since high lighting was invented.

Nutrients do not cause algae. Lack of nutrients causes algae.

Cheers,
 
No one has any idea because we do not know exactly what combination and/or magnitude of chemical signals the spores are attuned to and we are not able to measure specific values. We only have high correlation of their appearance with specific parameters such as light, CO2, Oxygen as well as plant health.

Algae are competing against each other for the resources available from dying plants. The death of plant cells may release certain types and certain quantities of nutrients and other chemicals. Spores are attached to the plant leaves and can monitor the level of health by sampling the movement of chemicals across the leaf/water interface.

Algae are predators. We do not know exactly for example, how other predators such as cheetahs, select a target prey out of a large herd. Somehow, they are able to determine which animal is weaker and potentially slower than the others. Other predators are opportunists and chase whatever prey animal is within strike range, regardless of health status. Similarly, some algae must wait for an opportunity while others select prey based on some unknown signal.

Also, there are many different types with the same group. There are many different kinds of filamentous algae and they are all a little different, but fundamentally, they all respond to plants that express CO2 distress.

GSA, responds immediately to any plant suffering from PO4 deficiency, but can also be triggered by CO2 shortfalls. It's not known why GSA would appear in lieu of a filamentous algal type, but again, it may have to do with the dynamics of the shortfall, i.e., the magnitude and length of term of the shortfall.

What we do know is that the ambient nutrient concentration of the water column is NOT one of those chemical signals, and it is more likely that the presence of some nutrients actually suppresses and prevents the blooming of some types. So for example, BGA is highly correlated to low NO3 levels, so the addition of NO3 often will suppress BGA and cause it to go dormant. However, it's still unclear whether the suppression is due strictly to the NO3 concentration level or whether it simply feeds the plant and prevents the leeching of a chemical trigger that tells BGA that the plant is suffering a NO3 deficiency.GDA is perplexing, is still not well understood and definitely cannot be bullied into submission, while diatoms are relatively easy to fix. Blackouts do wonders against diatoms but GDA seems impervious. So although this question cannot be answered easily, it is clear that all things leading to a decline in plant health automatically trigger a response in the spores that are in the vicinity of the leaf. Nutritional status as well as pollution are the main factors which affect plant health. So if we pay attention to these then it really will not matter whether diatoms are more clever than GDA or not. Good flow, good cleanliness, good nutrition and avoidance of overzealous lighting will prevent most, or all of these species from blooming.

Cheers,
 
Thanks for your great explanation, Clive ! Seems a complex variety of situations and variables with no easy answers. Your explanation seems mainly geared at algae on the plants themselves, as the ever present green armies lie in ambush waiting for a gap or weakness. As you suggest "GDA seems impervious' to most things, wish I could keep it off the front glass without Excel dosing a couple of times a week. Presumably GBA is also related to flow and not just low NO3 levels, as seems common also on the front glass below ground zero and with using ADA ?
 
I have been experiencing exactly the same problem with my stuarogyne repens ,
I believe that lowering lighting intensity has worked along with a few ottos to clean up the 'mess'
Cheers


Sent from my mobile telecommunications device
 
I have an ATI 6 x 80W just a foot away from massive green hills of st' repens and not a spec of algae on them, other factors such as Co2 and lack of flow are also surely at play..

can post pic if interested..
 
@ Trevor share some pics ..me thinking of adding sunsun wave maker 3000L/hr to wind up dead spots..i guess the rock hardscape surrounding this specific plant prevents the flow rate of co2 & nutrients.
Will it be productive .....

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Fundamentally, the nutrient shortfall is the culprit. The purpose of flow is to distribute the target nutrient. If there are stagnant areas near the leaf then the nutrients is the thin layer of water just above the leaf the nutrients get used up and the higher pressure in that zone blocks more nutrients and CO2 from entering that space. So flow is a means to an end, but the main issue is nutrient/CO2 uptake.

It doesn't really matter what sediment is being used, but yes, this is very annoying when it's on the glass below the substrate.

Cheers,
 
Hi Guys,
Finally performed a 50% water change to flush out the EI regime every week,i trimmed those blackened / Burnt staurogyne..Here is the thing i finally saw when i does some scrub on them !!! shocked to see...undefined
Here are the Before and After pics ...
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seems like a circulation problem to me ..... Its experts call to resolve!!1

Regards
 
kingdamm said:
@ Trevor share some pics ..me thinking of adding sunsun wave maker 3000L/hr to wind up dead spots..i guess the rock hardscape surrounding this specific plant prevents the flow rate of co2 & nutrients.
Will it be productive .....

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Here goes bud, better late than never .. two quick pics taken this evening of the Staur repens hills.. :)

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Trevor. Please forgive my ignorance and king sorry about going off topic but! What are the beautiful orange fish in your pics?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Ali, are you talking about the hengel rasbora..

Thanks Nathaniel, I guess it's the competition between the Staur repens themselves and growing in high light that has given them the compact leggy shape. I can move/wave the entire "palette of green' like one massive sponge. I planted the staur'repens carpet on the middle plateau of the scape in May and over the past couple of months have been shying away from taking the plunge with doing a brutal trim and to give the 80+kgs of hardscape some deserved daylight ;)
 
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