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Filters - What is actually correct?

justissaayman

justissaayman

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Joined
10 May 2013
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Location
Watford, UK
Hello All

As some of you may know I have a few tanks planned for the next 5-6 months and Im the process of moving as well as collecting all the relevant bits to make these projects reality.

My question is, what must I really believe in terms of filter capacity.
Let me explain:
I have 3 externals (a forth hopefully arriving soon):
Eheim 2213 (Classic 250),
Eheim Eco Pro 130 (bargain at £7.50)
JBL Crystal Profi E700

The 2213 is rated at 500-550lph and tanks up to 250liter...
the Eco Pro is rated at 600lph and tanks up to 130/150 liters (i forgot the exact literage), and
JBL at 700lph and tanks up to 150-200liters...

What is actually true? I was reading through the soil substrate post on this forum and the poster said you want 10x the turnover but darn that would require 2x 2213 in my simple 150liter tank, can I not run it from one of these filters?

Do the manufacturers take into consideration the drop in performance once the filter is in use, hence the lower volume like in the case of the JBL?

Any insigh is much appreciated.
 
Hi, recommended filter capacity for a high tech planted tank is 10x tank volume ie 150 ltr tank 1500 ltr/hour filter this should cover any drop off in flow rate, this is not a requirement for low tech tanks. Reason for 10x flow rate is to ensure good distribution off co2 & nutrients around the tank best way to achieve this is with a spray bar running the full length of the back wall facing forward to create a circular motion around the tank ime this works very well.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Tim. The 155 liter tank will be a Soil tank with no CO2 injection and MAYBE a little EL Ferts. Could I just do that with the Eco Pro or should I rather use the JBL?
 
Should be ok with the Eco on a low tech maybe have a read through big Tom and alistairs journals see what they use they are pretty much low tech gods IMO :) you can always supplement the filter with a power head if you feel you have dead spots in the tank, I think with low tech getting the lighting right is more beneficial than flow.
 
Thats where im getting my inspiration from. Ill be popping on the 2x 10W LED Floodlights as lighting and hopefully that would be enough, but that tank is for once the other tanks are up and running. The planted amazon (biotope type) is going first, then the Betta/Shrimp tanks then the 155
 
I'd use the JBL with the minimum amount of media needed to support the bioload thus keeping the turn over as close to max as poss. I think it's ok to use around 5x turn over for low-energy it you've got low light, low bioload, and you're not dosing much etc, but personally I still try to stick to the 10x rule. The turnover always looks scary on paper - especially as tank capacity increases - but the actual flow is often surprisingly underwhelming, particularly if the flow is dispersed through a rear facing spray bar. IMO good flow and distribution are still needed in a low-energy tank to help promote healthy plant growth, although it's not necessarily essential.
 
Troi, then how in the heck will people run 2--300 liter tanks with 10x the throughtput. I just dont understand it. Like APS sells their 1000+ etc etc filters and after a little whilst they trickle, Eheim's stay strong yet they are rated lower. Who is right? and more realistic? This is such a weird industry.
 
The mind boggles...I guess multiples of very large well built filters, like Eheim and Hagen, and as Tim says powerheads. I think most filters are rated without the hindrance of media, so a lot of the time drop off is attributable to accumulation of detritus, and thereafter I suppose poor design and underpowered motors. It's just another reason why good house keeping is important. I think that good flow is also important in a low-energy tank because it probably facilitates better diffusion of relatively low levels of CO2 across plant membranes...well at least to a point. But hey, it's just an opinion...
 
Big Clown, then I need to buy the curly over the tank bar as well, the duckbeak shaped one is the curly over the tank bar as well as the outloet
 
Sorry for the lenghty post. :)

Well filteres were probably mostly designed to take care of a certain bioload. So not only flow matters, but the size of the filter itself. I would presume that my Eheim 1000L/H can handle way larger tank than my Hagen internal U4, also rated 1000L/H, soley due to the difference in sizes.
And then of course it depends how manufacturers rate the flow, based on the powerhead itself, or after all media/piping etc which can lower it down quite a lot. Some manufacturers say it, some don't. If flow is what you want, then that's what you should concentrate on. Some people confuse flow with velocity too, thinking a filter blowing away their fish actually have more flow, but that could be due to the smaller outlet causing less water to come out at greater speed. For handling certain bioload I think size of filter is as important as flow. Some say planted tanks don't need much filtration because the plants handle the water stats, but plants have waste too that needs handling by something. A heavily planted and large enough tank would be better off with decent filtration regardless of plants. It's just way more stable and will cause no harm at all.

And back to the original question, I also keep low tech tanks and I've got 10x turn over via filters, not even powerheads. The only reason I see one wouldn't put decent flow in a low tech is possibly because everyone setting up such tanks wants to get away with as little as possible investment. But even a low tech soil tank can end up heavily planted and you need quite a good flow to distribute the nutritients and natural co2 evenly, less chance of algae problems this way. And it gives you room for a better stocking and redundancy in case something happens to the plants and they don't grow as fast and as healthy as you'd like them sometimes. You may end up rescaping often, disturbing lots of substrate etc.. and plants themselves won't grow magically overnight to handle some unwanted situation although these could be rare enough depending on what type of aquascaper you are. An algae outbreak will also affect the plant growth, then fish will suffer while you are fixing it.

One thing is for sure, more flow and filtration even in a low tech tank is beneficial, then its up to experimenting how much you can get away with without causing the plants or stock to suffer long term.
I've got two planted journals for low tech tanks somewhere under my name, both have 10x filtration and both are low tech soil tanks.
 
Thanks loads m8!
I dont have a 1000lph filter, so I have to choose one of the filters I have as I am semi skint on hardware right now. Would the JBL serve me best then and it and both the Eheims have really good filtration capacity / area for bacteria. Should I just spraybar it or will the duckbill pipe work?
 
Ok so to sum up. Create a super long spraybar (any tutorials on this forum??) and use either one of the filters.

NOTE: My Rio Negro biotope will be using on of these filters.
 
Yes, and see how it goes.
There surely are a lot of threads around here for custom made spraybars I've come across. Check the DIY section. The only downfall is that if the spraybar is too long for the fllter, the velocity could be very low and some mechanical movement of the plants is desirable. You may try using a spraybar on the side instead if it's just one filter and then decide from there.
 
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