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Protip: If you're not Plantbrain, stop posting like you are

wet

wet

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2012
Messages
46
This hobby has turned into such an echo chamber new ideas aren't even expressed any more. Just because Tom has the weight and knowledge and years of experience to post long interesting thoughts while occasionally destroying others, don't go around being a jerk to fellow gardeners, guys.

Ever wonder why so many old timers don't post anymore? Maybe that's why. What culture are we adopting?
 
Hi Wet.

If you feel anyone in particular has overstepped a mark, then I'm sure a quiet message to George or Paulo would lead to them addressing the issue responsibly if they agreed that it was out of order.

All in all I reckon this is one of the politest and friendliest forums around, but I expect some of the people who have the most in depth knowledge and post the most extensive replies probably get a bit fatigued about often having to answer the same questions over and over again, so you can perhaps understand an abrupt tone now and again. Clive obviously is a special case and has his own inimitable posting style ( :)), but probably contributes more to this forum than almost anyone else - once you've been here a while you'll see he's the same way with everyone. Although you mention old-timers, so maybe you're a returnee?

In any online community like this you inevitably end up with quite a lot of people passing on info in an authoritative tone, which in many cases they themselves have probably only recently acquired, but at least here that info is generally a lot more accurate than you'll find in many other places!
 
But isn't that the problem? Folks assume they know the answer and don't ask questions.

So let's say I am Alice the new gardener, and I'm just curious and want to understand my tank better. Let's say I *like* math. Let's say I *like* the fun of playing scientist because it makes my hobby *fun*

What happens when Bob, Charlie, Danielle, Erin, etc, etc just keep posting that I'm doing it wrong without ever answering my math or playing scientist questions. Who is really doing it wrong?

I'm not talking about a guy. I'm talking about a culture that is taking over this hobby and is turning away more people than you may think.

But yes, I LOVE UKAPS and you guys are awesome and a standard for plant clubs and forums. Shout out to APC, too, though :) And I really appreciate the reply and discussion, BigTom.
 
I agree with Tom this forum is hands down the most polite forum I have been to. The members really do know their stuff and sometimes they express themselves in their own way, perhaps they don't even know they're using a tone which may otherwise come across as rude. As Tom mentions Clive does not care who you are he just gives you the information as it is, he won't hold back with his knowledge, he will go all out inorder to prove facts and provide information to myth bust if you will.
 
What myth? That other people may have fun with their tanks in a way different than the echo chamber?
 
wet said:
But isn't that the problem? Folks assume they know the answer and don't ask questions.

What happens when Bob, Charlie, Danielle, Erin, etc, etc just keep posting that I'm doing it wrong without ever answering my math or playing scientist questions. Who is really doing it wrong?
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Yeah that's a fair enough peave and something you see all over the net. I think we're very lucky here to have people like Tom, Clive and Darrel who can discuss such questions with reasonable rigour, but at the end of the day they are only three people with infinitely better things to do with their time (maybe!). I really dislike the way that factoids and misconceptions can easily end up as aquarium 'lore', but at the end of the day you have to pick something to believe, and if two or three of the guys mentioned above have weighed in on something and reached a reasonable consensus, then I'm normally happy to go with that as a best guess.

Inevitably, with so many parameters involved in keeping fish and plants and so little proper scientific study, a good guess is normally the best you can hope for. However, with enough experience and background understanding of the chemistry and biology involved, those guesses can often be pretty close to the money, and there are plenty of myths that can be disproved with counter examples.

It's always a lot easier to present something as a fact than typing paragraphs and paragraphs of ifs and buts though...
 
wet said:
What myth? That other people may have fun with their tanks in a way different than the echo chamber?
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People may want to have fun and all but what if they approach certain things in a wrong way like thinking nutrient rich waters causes algae and that carpet plants love high lighting to stop their leggy growth? They may be having fun initially but once they cling on to these ideas and start trying resolving problem with a false idea which will no doubt lead to more problems instead of fixing it. If they carry that on where is the fun in that? And what if then someone tells them that their approach is totally wrong too? Where is the fun in that? Why not educate them from the start preventing these problems which may lead to disappointment in the end?
 
No disrespect, but when Plantbrain posts his thoughts and backs it up with tanks everyone listens. When folks pretend to be Plantbrain and don't post pics of plus plus PLUS tanks, that's just noise.

And I'm posting to UKAPS and APC because it is so special :) I seriously can't even read other forums any more. But the culture shift from 5, 8, 9 years ago is depressing.
 
"People may want to have fun and all but what if they approach certain things in a wrong way like thinking nutrient rich waters causes algae and that carpet plants love high lighting to stop their leggy growth? They may be having fun initially but once they cling on to these ideas and start trying resolving problem with a flase idea which will no doubt lead to more problems instead of fixing it. If they carry that on where is the fun in that? And what if then someone tells them that their approach is wrong too? Where is the fun in that?"

Do you really think there's only one way to grow a tank?

Do you really think it's more fun to read a know it all than to learn on your own and get your questions answered?

"How do I..."

"STFU and do this, noob"

That's what this culture is doing and we're spending so much time defending it we're not seeing it. Seriously.
 
I really don't think this whole "STFU and do this, noob" is really happening at least on UKAPS, I believe I have yet to read something which goes along that line. True some members may dismiss other's theories/methods but they do provide reasons why during the thread's life.

Having fun or not can't be judged from anyone else but one's self so I have kind of slapped myself in the face when I said perhaps making mistakes may cause people to not have fun. But most of the time when I see people "not have fun" is when the mistakes happen and they try desperately to salvage their mistakes. What if this was prevented from the start?
 
Hey Michael W.

That's interesting. But we can do that in threads where folks are planning their tanks. But folks who are asking about details? Folks who ask specific questions about how to do molar mass calculations or verification or, well, basically doing their homework? Why don't they get those questions answered?

I mean, if someone wants to shill their solution, great. But at least answer the person's questions too instead of saying they do not matter. And when someone doesn't answer those questions, I really doubt they have enough understanding of the subject matter to explain it to a beginner. And that's a problem.
 
wet said:
Cool. Thanks for considering my opinion and engaging in conversation, dude. I thought this was an Internet forum.
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Why start a whole topic on this? For one, its complete nonsense.
Nobody is telling you to 'STFU' or how to run your tank, only fair opinions, and if your asking for their opinion, then you must put up with what people on here have to say. I have been on here for 3 years? And have never seen any real hostility between members. Those who have shown any kind of this behaviour were quickly dealt with, but they are so few in numbers.

Do as advised and let an admin know, and stop making out everyone on this forum is a bad egg.
 
Dude, Nathaniel, work on your reading comprehension and feel free to lay off this thread.

I like UKAPS. I like this hobby. I like beginners. You're the one that needs to chill out. I'm talking about how to further the hobby, and if you can't hear me, don't read it dude. I am not pooping in your threads.
 
Oh and the reason why people Respect Plantbrains opinion, is one he is a long serving forum member and contributes to different topics/subjects in a way that people understand, and has had the EXPERIENCE in Aquaria.

Experience = knowledge.
 
Right, so if you don't have that experience, maybe you should let Plantbrain post in his style and find your own style.
 
So what your basically saying is that someone who clearly has an extremely vast amount of knowledge when it comes to healthy plant keeping and proof that methods work, shouldn't because they're not tom barr??
That's what this forum is here for so that we can all share personal experiences and that of others.
Tom has a great deal of knowledge but so do others on here.
Ive learnt many a thing from tom and also plenty of things from other members on here and wouldnt be where I am today with my tanks if it weren't for these people.
Seems like a rant thread to me which was and is very unnecessary.
As a few have stated pm a mod or one of the founders if you dont like how someone is or works on here.
 
wet said:
Right, so if you don't have that experience, maybe you should let Plantbrain post in his style and find your own style.
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I'm not claiming I possess any more experience than you, am I? I don't understand the whole logic of this conversation and what you aim to achieve.
 
Ok guys I think we should leave it as it is? In theory no one is wrong right? At then end of the day Its all about opinions and how we choose to learn things right? If people can't find answers from here or other forums they can choose to either leave to another or to ask more questions leading to their desired answers?
 
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