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Leaves/Tannins

Nelson

Nelson

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2008
Messages
2,535
Location
Norfolk
Just trying to find out what is safe to use and available in the UK.
I know,

Oak
Beech,what about the nut shells/casing ?.
Camellia ?

How about,

Field Maple
Elm
Zelkova
Cherry
Apple
Magnolia Stellata
Sycamore
Grape(leaves)
Ash
Hawthorn

Or any others.
 
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I know Wallnut is used by many. Alder cones are used, so probably it's leaves are ok too.
 
Colin Dunlop did an article for seriously fish on safe leaves to use. Well worth a read. I'm sure magnolia was on the list and maple too but best check with him.

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What i find rather funny, but it probably has a good reason i just do not know it yet. :rolleyes: But melting of aquatic plants tends to induce algae growth and is something we like to avoid and trim old melting leaves away. But on the other hand we throw in non aquatic leaves and many of us leave them to rot as well. Aint that a bit melting as well? Kinda makes me wonder.. Can't we just leave old melting leaves melt?

Btw what about Willow leaves, that's a tree often found near the water, obviously shedding all it's leaves in it year after year.. Next to that willow seems to contain aspirin (acetylsalicylic).. At least the fish certainly never will have a headage.. :lol:
 
I've recently collect a load of alder cones for my shrimp tank. about ten give for 20 gallons gives good results.
 
Zozo these are dead leaves that have been dropped by trees. The sugar has been taken out of the leaf by the tree and then discarded. I'm sure there is a brain about to explain it better.

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Lindy said:
Zozo these are dead leaves that have been dropped by trees. The sugar has been taken out of the leaf by the tree and then discarded. I'm sure there is a brain about to explain it better.

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Ok that could kinda make sence that the drying proces does someting.. I red also that it's stated you could gather the life leaves from the tree and dry them at home.
I once red a very valid argumant it's best not to colect leafs from the forest floor, because you never know how long they are laying there decomposing and colecting fungus etc.

So if it is the drying process making the diference, why shouldn't be ok to dry the leave litter from the (aquatic) plants you trim off and throw 'm back into the tank.

It all sounds kinda odd to me, cutting a lot away from my tank dispose of it in the bin and then run into the forest to collect dead leaves to throw back in. In nature it's not only trees that shed their leaves into the water, also the marginal vegitation.. 99% of what we grow in our tanks grows rather marginal in nature than aquatic.

Just trying to connect some dots here, for example did read information from some plant nurseries they use and advice dried sedge as substrate to grow sertain aquatic plants from seeds. This because it has the same propperties in what it adds to the water. Tannins etc.. Now sedge is Cyperaceae which we also can grow as C. Helferi.. :)
 
zozo said:
It all sounds kinda odd to me, cutting a lot away from my tank dispose of it in the bin and then run into the forest to collect dead leaves to throw back in.
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Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
I want my two low tech tanks to be blackwater.Won't be using them in my high tech.
 
Nelson said:
Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
I want my two low tech tanks to be blackwater.Won't be using them in my high tech.
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I'm not quite sure what you are refering to, if dried sedge does at tannins to the water you would acheive the same as using dried oak leaves or any other.. This stands completely beside high or low tech.. :) What i'm trying to say is if you grow sedge in your tank, why would a dying sedge leave not add tannins to the water? Do we need to dry it first before it does that? It kinda doesn't make much sence to me and also can't find any explanations. I'm just thinking there must be (aquatic) plants we can grow in our thanks or maybe our garden doing the same. Sedge (cyperus helferi) seems to be one of them.

So why run to forest and search for suitable terrestrial trees if we can grow it ourself in our tanks with the right plant choice? :)
 
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I even think there must be a large number of plants we might be able to use for that, as long it contains tannoids and probably a lot do.. Only would need to find out what more does it contain we might not want in our tanks. The number of Edible Medicinal and Non Medicinal Plants is rather huge and fairly well researched and documented.

Our home botanist Darrel ( @dw1305 ) could shed a clear light on that one i guess.. :)
 
I just 'assumed' dried leaves added tannins.Not sure if dead leaves,from aquatic plants,do the same !.
Also not sure how many Cyperus helferi I would need for 125ltr and 150ltr tanks.Would they grow low tech and low light ?.
I can get a years supply of leaves,for free,in an hour or two.
I also like the aesthetics,with the leaves.
 
I meant it just as an example.. :) And i'm growing a Cyperus sp. in the garden emersed a metre high.. Just try to give a maybe valid alternative other then search for trees.
As said in my search for plants came across nurseries using and advising dried sedge as a substrate to grow certain difficult plant sp like utricularias. It seems to work beter than peat with simular propperties, adding tannins and beneficial acids, antseptic, prevent fungal growth, beneficial for microbiological development becaus it is perfect food for rotifers etc. It does everything what a dried almond or oak or beach leave does to our tank water.

All this information made me think and scratch meself behind the ears while adding almond leaves to the tank while growing sedge in the garden and some even grow it in their tanks. There aint realy much info to be found about this subject in aqaurium use other then leaves from terrestrial trees. So it kinda contradicts a few common practices in the aquarium hobby, like cutting away dying leaves and dispose it, even cutting away healthy tissue and dispose it. And them run into the forest to collect dead leaves to put in the tank. :rolleyes: Mean while what we dispose of could have the same propperties.. If so, then what the hell are we doing here? Having a run around?

I'm as unsure as you are in this, but since you brought the issue up i thought why not share it and maybe find out what others who know more about the subject think about it. :)
 
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If you are trimming leaves off they are not dead leaves. Do not take leaves off the trees as these will contain sugar still. If you are worried about contaminants you can bake them in the oven before using. You don't want the leaves releasing nutrients into the water. Just tanin stained.

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Lindy said:
If you are trimming leaves off they are not dead leaves. Do not take leaves off the trees as these will contain sugar still. If you are worried about contaminants you can bake them in the oven before using. You don't want the leaves releasing nutrients into the water. Just tanin stained.
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This already was clear to me the first time you mentioned it. Good point you don't want to much protiens and sugars leaching into the water column from dying life tissue in a tank.

Dry it, and it will be as dead as a leaf from a tree you find on the floor.
 
But a picked leaf that is then dried still contains the sugars that you don't want in your tank!

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It is like the difference in hay and straw. Hay that is cut has sugars and nutrients used to feed horses etc as it is cut while the grass is alive but not too juicy but straw has no nutritional value as it is baled once the crop is harvested and it is completely dead.

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Lindy said:
But a picked leaf that is then dried still contains the sugars that you don't want in your tank!
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Was already afraid that this was your bottom line.. But then you might explain the differents between the 2 ways of dying and what it does to the sugars.. It might be applicable to certain spieces if i think correctly about what you mean with that one breef sentence.

If a leave dies and dry on your window sil it keeps the sugars but if it dies and dry on the tree it doesn't.. But you pick it off the floor.. How do you know then how it died?

The plot thickens and i'm getting realy lost.
 
In autumn the trees are dropping their leaves after sucking all the good stuff out. That is why the leaves change colour in autumn. The tree then drops the leaf. We collect leaves in autumn/early winter.

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I know trees or rather it's leaves stop making chlorophyll in the fall and therefore change color.. So you are saying the tree pulls back all the carbohydrates from the leaf as well to store energy for the hybernation periode? So then i tripocal tree as the indian almond must do the same without a winter but does this during a dry season? Hmm intresting? First time i hear this. Always thought the carbonhydrate was the main building block as a solid substance. Anyway i'll take your word for it, thanks for explaining.. :)
 
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