*Newbie* 60L My First Planted "help journal"

[PaulP]

Hello,

Well where do I start? I was on here about a month ago trying to get abit of information to help get me started on my first planted tank. But having 3 kids been quite busy and have had no time. So I have decided to start a journal as a kind of learn as I go.

Just a quick get to know me =]
Got my first tank in january 2012 for the kids. Did not do any research! Got a 60litre elite tank which i put 3 fancy goldfish in. After a week kids lost interest (just like any toy i get them lol). I grew fond of the goldfish and realised my tank was like a tin of sardines for these goldfish. So I got a Rio 180 litre (Second hand for £75 ) for them and now have a 60L spare. having looked around the internet mainly I stumbled onto PFK which then led me to ukaps! Looking at the galleries I just had to have my own! so here we are!

What i have to work with:

60L 60x30x30cm

Interpet PF2 Internal Filter
Any suggestions on a new filter?
I have been looking at this:
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/a...n-filters/aquarium-hang-on-filter-500l-h.html

Lighting
Sun glo 18' 15w T8
Do I need a better light?
Can I just buy a better bulb? or do i need to get a whole new hood unit with better lighting?

Elite submersible 100w heater

Substrate:
JBL Aquabasis +
JBL Manado
OK here's the deal, went to my 1 of my local MA basically not knowing much asked which substrate would be best for a planted tank. After raising his eye-brows for a good minute and eyes up to the sky he gave me JBL aqua basis+, I asked if this is all I need and he said yes and was assured it was the best they had in store for planted aquariums. So I trusted and bought it didn't bother with plants was gonna pick some up next day. Got home put it in the tank, was exact amount I thought was good. Put bubble wrap over the top and slowly filled half way to get it ready for planting next day. 1/4 filled, water was same colour as the substrate which I thought was abit much but thought it would clear. woke up next morning still the same so straight onto the net for some research. Found out I did need something over the top like gravel or sand or the recommended JBL Manado. The aquabasis was just a good source of nutrients for the plants anyway I decided to go with the JBL Manado. So basically started again emptied water and put in the JBL Manado. Much better!

Co2
This costs quite abit so i am thinking of doing 'DIY Co2' have been looking around but there's been so many different ways of doing, mainly when it comes to the right amounts of yeast sugar to use. Can anyone help me on this? or just point me in the right direction? I have looked in the DIY section but cant find it, or maybe its not there as its not very recommended here?

(Excuse the picture quality. Taken with phone.)

OK so next up was the Rocks, wood and plants. TGM has been mentioned many times on ukaps so had a look(great stuff BTW!), loved the look of dragon stone but thought was a bit pricey? £6.08 per KG? then there's the plants, so much to choose from! so confused I decided to put my shoes on and go ADC, at least I can get to see what I'm buying. Good job I went there they had many types of decor rocks and stones, and dragon stone was £2.50 per KG! Bargain compared to TGM. Now plants, loved the look of carpets in people aquascapes so I got Hemianthus Callitrichoides "cuba". Also picked up Hygrophila corymbosa 'siamensis 53B' and Alternanthera reineckii 'pink' (roseafolia). To be honest it took so long for someone to come and help me (seems that way everytime i go there) and I could only see 1 other customer in the shop, i just picked out what i liked the look of.. paid and went.

well I am rambling lol :silent:

here's a few pics of what i have done.

The Dragon Stones

Placing stones in.

Plants in.

Had a few problems with the plants, Mainly because when I was removing the mineral wool... I took alot of the roots with it, the HC was hard to plant because of this. Will it be ok? il give it a try anyway.

HC

My Bearded Cory

Also have a Peppered Cory but doesnt like paparazzi

OK well all criticism is more than welcome, dont hold back

Thanks for taking time to read and hope 1 day I can grow to be as good as everyone on ukaps with all your help and guidance hehe

 

[creg]

if i were you id get the all pond solutions external filter, it will keep you tank looking much cleaner and give you a nice amount of flow.

to grow the plants youve bought i think you deffo need better lighting, you will need a t5 light unit like this http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... bulbs.html and co2 i think (i recommend fire extinguisher diy) or liquid carbon and a liquid fertiliser like these http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-desi ... -3971.html. i would have recommended crypts, java fern and mosses as you have whats considered low light.

also cories like to be in groups of 6 or more and 60l is probably just about ok for 6.

 

[logi-cat]

looks like a good start. i would personally go for an external filter, you want something that has good flow to circulate water around the tank to distribute nutrients, etc evenly. Are you currently dosing any fertilisers? HC will need the addition of CO2 and a more intenser light source (2WPG or more), anything below and the growth will be slow.

 

[pariahrob]

NIce start but I would have to agree. You will need more light and CO2 for that HC. I planted mine similarly to how you have at first, cut into slightly smaller sections but I ended up adding another two pots in even smaller segments. If you could do that you would find your carpet developing much faster. I think that might be down to our perception or maybe cutting the roots does spur on fresh growth but my carpet is now looking good and I'm hoping it will be completely covering the bottom soon.

The roseafolia is lovely. I have one in my tank too, although I ended up taking some and moving it to the other side of the tank. With good light it will grow fast!

Ferts are a good idea. Many people on here swear by EI method. There is a thread in the tutorial section all about it. Personally I'm not heading down that route yet. It's a lot to initially get your head round (or is for me anyway) and I'd hate to get it wrong. Saying that there are places that will ready mix for you, so might be worth a try.

Good luck with it. Planted tanks are a joy, even when they are a battle.

 

[Antipofish]

NIce start but I would have to agree. You will need more light and CO2 for that HC. I planted mine similarly to how you have at first, cut into slightly smaller sections but I ended up adding another two pots in even smaller segments. If you could do that you would find your carpet developing much faster. I think that might be down to our perception or maybe cutting the roots does spur on fresh growth but my carpet is now looking good and I'm hoping it will be completely covering the bottom soon.
No matter how you chop your HC up and plant it, it wont carpet unless you have enough light, circulation/flow, and sufficient CO2.


The roseafolia is lovely. I have one in my tank too, although I ended up taking some and moving it to the other side of the tank. With good light it will grow fast!
It grows like a weed. But a very lovely one, and I wish I had not got rid of mine !!!

Ferts are a good idea. Many people on here swear by EI method. There is a thread in the tutorial section all about it. Personally I'm not heading down that route yet. It's a lot to initially get your head round (or is for me anyway) and I'd hate to get it wrong. Saying that there are places that will ready mix for you, so might be worth a try.
In a tank your size Paul, you dont need EI although its easy to do if you do want to use it. The article Rob mentioned is to be found here... http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm and the basic principle is that you "overdose" but remove any excess with regular 50% water changes. This eliminates most scope for error and ultimately saves you about 900% on the cost of bottled ferts which are about 90% water !!! I am about to embark on this method and there are plenty of guys on here who will help you out with advice before you start. You can buy started kits for EI dosing from most of the UKAPS sponsors.

Good luck with it. Planted tanks are a joy, even when they are a battle.

Just added a few extra comments to support what Rob was saying above Incidentally, nice choice of substrate and hardscape. That DS is lovely

 

[hinch]

In a tank your size Paul, you dont need EI although its easy to do if you do want to use it

yes you do! you should ALWAYS add ferts of some description unless you're going down the bucket of mud route.
EI is the cheapest solution however a premixed EI all in one (like from APF one of our sponsors here) is more than good enough and still very cheap think i spend about 3 every 2-3 months on it and I heavily dose a 35L tank

 

[Antipofish]

In a tank your size Paul, you dont need EI although its easy to do if you do want to use it

yes you do! you should ALWAYS add ferts of some description unless you're going down the bucket of mud route.
EI is the cheapest solution however a premixed EI all in one (like from APF one of our sponsors here) is more than good enough and still very cheap think i spend about 3 every 2-3 months on it and I heavily dose a 35L tank

Hinch, I did not say he didn't need ferts I said he does not need to add them using the EI method. And he doesn't. It is a small enough tank that normal ferts would not be too expensive.

 

[PaulP]

if i were you id get the all pond solutions external filter, it will keep you tank looking much cleaner and give you a nice amount of flow.

to grow the plants youve bought i think you deffo need better lighting, you will need a t5 light unit like this http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... bulbs.html and co2 i think (i recommend fire extinguisher diy) or liquid carbon and a liquid fertiliser like these http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-desi ... -3971.html. i would have recommended crypts, java fern and mosses as you have whats considered low light.

also cories like to be in groups of 6 or more and 60l is probably just about ok for 6.

Hi creg, Yeh iv been looking for a new filter for a while but just on a budget as Mrs is going nuts over how much i have spent the last few months on my tanks hehe do you think the hang on filter could do a decent job? about the lighting.. as i am on a budget a new unit might have to wait a while. could i just get better bulbs for now? also looking to get more plants so will have a look at crypts and java fern. thanks!
oh as for the corys! i love them dont worry im on the look out for more!

looks like a good start. i would personally go for an external filter, you want something that has good flow to circulate water around the tank to distribute nutrients, etc evenly. Are you currently dosing any fertilisers? HC will need the addition of CO2 and a more intenser light source (2WPG or more), anything below and the growth will be slow.

Hi logi-cat i am currently not dosing with anything?! but i will be out tomorrow so will look tonight on what i need and get some when im out. thanks!

NIce start but I would have to agree. You will need more light and CO2 for that HC. I planted mine similarly to how you have at first, cut into slightly smaller sections but I ended up adding another two pots in even smaller segments. If you could do that you would find your carpet developing much faster. I think that might be down to our perception or maybe cutting the roots does spur on fresh growth but my carpet is now looking good and I'm hoping it will be completely covering the bottom soon.

The roseafolia is lovely. I have one in my tank too, although I ended up taking some and moving it to the other side of the tank. With good light it will grow fast!

Ferts are a good idea. Many people on here swear by EI method. There is a thread in the tutorial section all about it. Personally I'm not heading down that route yet. It's a lot to initially get your head round (or is for me anyway) and I'd hate to get it wrong. Saying that there are places that will ready mix for you, so might be worth a try.

Good luck with it. Planted tanks are a joy, even when they are a battle.

hi pariahrob. Yeh i watch on youtube TGM channel on how to prepare but just went wrong, hope they do well. yes i agree roseafolia are nice, adds colour rather than all green plants! will be looking at the EI method as it is mentioned quite abit, anything to help my tank im all for it!! thanks!



Hi Antipofish. Thanks for the added advice! Really thinking now i should of taken alot more time with this But great advice from everyone! thanks!

In a tank your size Paul, you dont need EI although its easy to do if you do want to use it

yes you do! you should ALWAYS add ferts of some description unless you're going down the bucket of mud route.
EI is the cheapest solution however a premixed EI all in one (like from APF one of our sponsors here) is more than good enough and still very cheap think i spend about 3 every 2-3 months on it and I heavily dose a 35L tank

Hi hinch. thanks mate will be looking into this! cheers!



Thanks people! didn't expect such a quick response! will be looking into everything been said here! guess i have homework as well as the kids homework

hope you stick around to see my tank hopefully progress!!

thanks!

 

[logi-cat]

that's what i like about this forum, instant replies

 

[spyder]

I was the same with EI when I started but once you understand the basics, it's quite straight forward. I started in a 60l myself. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16032

2 tsp Kno3,
1 Tsp Kh2po4
5.5-6 tsp of Mgso4.
300 ml of water to keep the dosing to a simple 25ml per dose, 3 times per week, (Mon-Wed-Fri)

Trace is 1/16 or half a tsp per 4 weeks. 1 tsp in 400ml = 8 weeks at 25ml per dose. (Tues-Thurs)

The only thing I changed was to up the KH2PO4 by half a teaspoon to fight off some GSA. I can simply double the salts for my 125l, or half dose in my 25-30l nano's. HC is nice and very tempting but you will have to have good co2 to succeed with it.

The rocks look nice, I need to rob a bank and get some dragon stone.

 

[creg]

if i were you id get the all pond solutions external filter, it will keep you tank looking much cleaner and give you a nice amount of flow.

to grow the plants youve bought i think you deffo need better lighting, you will need a t5 light unit like this http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... bulbs.html and co2 i think (i recommend fire extinguisher diy) or liquid carbon and a liquid fertiliser like these http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-desi ... -3971.html. i would have recommended crypts, java fern and mosses as you have whats considered low light.

also cories like to be in groups of 6 or more and 60l is probably just about ok for 6.

Hi creg, Yeh iv been looking for a new filter for a while but just on a budget as Mrs is going nuts over how much i have spent the last few months on my tanks hehe do you think the hang on filter could do a decent job? about the lighting.. as i am on a budget a new unit might have to wait a while. could i just get better bulbs for now? also looking to get more plants so will have a look at crypts and java fern. thanks!
oh as for the corys! i love them dont worry im on the look out for more!

hi, im in the same boat mate my budget is very strict too and this hobby is far too expensive. im still saving for equipment for a tank i set up months ago, that hang on the back filter will do but keep the internal filter aswell. when you can afford it have a look on ebay for bargains. unfortunately you cant use any bulb in any light unit, only t8`s will work in that one if that what is has, i think its going to be impossible to grow hc cuba under that light and without fertilisers. if you cant afford a better light for a while your best bet is ferns, crypts and moss.

just make sure to be patient and do lots of research before you buy anything is the best advice i can give

crypts are awesome btw, my tank is 95% crypts also once you have so many posts on here there is a for sale section you might find some bargains there on plants and equipment.

 

[ceg4048]

...to grow the plants youve bought i think you deffo need better lighting, you will need a t5 light unit...

This is not true at all. People really need to get over their high light fantasy. Did you realize that LCP for HC is less than 30 micromoles? On the other hand, did you realize that HC has one of the highest CO2 compensation points? That's because HC lives mostly only partially submerged and so it is not as talented in growing sobmerged where CO2 is much lower than it is in the atmosphere.

What you really need to grow plants in a CO2-enriched tank is better application of CO2 and flow, not more light. More light just makes things grow faster. That's all. We should avoid programming new users to cause more headaches for themselves than necessary. We should encourage them to use more flow, to think more carefully about better distribution of that flow, and to think more about how to execute better CO2 dissolution. Telling people to use more light results in more troubles than it solves.

The OP is advise to forget about upgrading light and to concentrate his limited resources on sstronger filtration and more effective CO2 solutions such as liquid carbon and gas injection when possible, because that will determine his success. If the OP decides to use a yeast based CO2 system then that makes the supoplemental use of liquid carbon products such as Excel even more important.

Cheers,

 

[hinch]

my next planted tank is exactly the same tank as this one (same hagen elite tank) I'll be injecting co2 with very high flow, soil substrate (john innes) and overdosing of the APF all in one. I'll be maintaining the standard t8 lighting above in the standard hood too. in other words exactly as clive just said.

 

[Mark Evans]

I'd also like to back up on what Clive has said.

I was a firm believer in 'Wembley stadium lighting'

However, plants really don't need it. It is a misconception that HC needs stacks of light, but it will grow in shaded areas.

What's more important is the 'transition' stage of HC...from first planted to fully submerged form. Co2 is key.

The HC in this following pic was grown with 2 T5's. Now don't get confused, The unit is really high above the tank, Meaning the output is considerably lower. The halides were used later in this tanks life to meet deadlines on certain projects.

Once established, HC will grow with ease in full shade areas.


cant-do-it by saintly's pics, on Flickr

 

[creg]

sorry guys i was just repeating the advice ive seen on many other sites and what was told to me, thank you for clearing that up. so you can grow a carpet of hc under any lighting with the right co2 and nutrients? wow i never wouldve imagined

 

[ceg4048]

Yes, you can, it's just that it takes longer. Beyond the minimum required lighting for survival, increasing the light intensity merely accelerates the growth rates but does not necessarily increases the health of the plant. This is true for any of our plants. In a bizarre twist of fate, the more CO2 you administer, the less light the plant actually needs.

As Mark mentions, we often need to meet deadlines for the scape to achieve a certain level of maturity, such as entering a contest, for example. In those situations, only a higher light intensity will generate the speed of growth necessary to meet the deadline. HC has a tremendous hunger for CO2, so that's what you need to feed it in order to ensure it's health. Increasing the light intensity only causes more hunger for CO2, and that's why so many people fail with HC, because they insist on pummeling the poor plant with light, and yet they do not think about feeding that increased hunger for CO2, so the plant starves to death.

Algae are the only plants that "require" high light.

Cheers,

 

[PaulP]

Hello!

Sorry been quite busy lately. Before I start just want to say thanks again for all the advice/information that has been given I'm sure it will not only help me!

After seeing quite a few things that have been said here I have decided to not look for better lighting, maybe in the future and to concentrate on getting better filtration system for my tank and also co2! Mainly because it was said light just speeds up growth, and I'm in no rush.

Thanks ceg4048!
Also read the your artical on here about EI which I will be doing also you have been popping up in quite a few topics i have been reading on here! been a very big help so thanks!



So back to my tank.

Well tell you what I have done recently, first I saw a video on preparing stems. I basically just pulled the mineral wool off and planted. So I took the Hygrophila corymbosa and roseafolia out separated into smaller portions and so on. So far there not doing too bad but to be honest I wont be surprised if all goes downhill

My HC is also so far going ok, only problem is my corys love having a go at them lol.

Not too sure if I am going to get more HC as there is quite a few big gaps between them. Only because I have nothing right now to keep them healthy. We will see....

So this is what my tank looks like now.

You can see couple HC in the top left corner, my corys must think its a game

I will be going out soon to get some fish. When I started my tank I wanted neon tetras but now looking to get black neon and green neon tetras. Also been looking at harlequins so we shall see, normally when I go get fish id go there wanting a certain fish and come home with something else

So I will be back in a little while with a few more pics.

 

[PaulP]

Just a quick question.
If I got a powerhead for my tank would that create better flow in my tank for the co2?

 

[pariahrob]

A power head will certainly create more flow. Wether it is better flow or not is all down to positioning. I'm not the best person to advise on this but I'm sure somebody will help out.
You are looking to get a nice even flow across the whole tank, to provide good delivery of ferts and CO2/O2 to all your tank.
The hydor koralia power heads are good, as they are small and easy to move around while you test flow. I originally had a spray bar outlet and it was too strong. I ended up netting out or replanting HC all the time. I went for a set of glass lily pipes in the end. I'm happy with my flow, with the exception of one corner of the tank which doesn't quite get as much.
Now my plants are establishing themselves I might try a koralia.

Sorry for kind of derailing your thread. Starting my reply got me thinking!



The short answer is: Yes, with a little tweaking/experimenting.

BTW, the plants are looking nice and healthy, even with the cory games!

 

[creg]

your tank is looking great i like the new layout, i may have a koralia powerhead for sale soon you can have it for a tenner if you want.

beware tho where you position it because it will suck tall plants into it