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The pursuit of perfect lighting

Camelia

Seedling
Joined
10 Mar 2016
Messages
14
Location
Romania
Hello,
I own a 300 liters tank (120 cm x 50 cm x50 xm) and a Blau lamp 8 x 54W. The lamp is suspended over the tank and the distance between lamp and water can be very easy adjusted. The lamp have 4 pairs of bulbs that can be switch on and off independently. Fertilization is EI and CO2 at very high level. I intend to introduce a few demanding species of plants, like rotala macranda. Can you suggest me a setup for light in order to have a clean tank with plants in good shape ? I am not intereseted in high growng rate, I prefer the safe way.
Thanks guys.
 
That's a whole lot of light, you'll be growing algae fast. 4 x 54W light is already a lot (maybe even to much), I wouldn't go for that much and try to keep them on for no longer than 7-8 hours per day....if you want to go the safe way, than 2 lights for 7 hours per day should get you there, keep an eye on your CO2 injection (pH vs KH) to not only keep your plants happy, but also your fauna.
 
The best advice I can give would be relating to 30ppm C02 & perfect flow!
Very occasionally you can see members who have large tanks, high lighting & healthy plants but, they are few and far between... most are struggling with algae.
A tank of that size is at the top of our game and will need careful planing.
As Martin sugesst I would also say starting off with 2 and building up to 4 would be a good place to start.
However if you have all the right equipment and knowalage in place then perhaps you can make use of 6 bulbs if they are suspended up high enough. Good luck with your tank.
 
Thanks for answers. I have two Eheim 2078 full with biological media and also I can keep CO2 at 30 ppm easily. The flow is good. I know 8x54W is a lot of light, but that don't means that I have to use all the bulbs.
What distance should I keep between the lamp and the suface at the water ?
Is better to have a constant intensity or to have a low light with a noon burst ?
I don't want to grow algae, I want to grow plants. One more thing, I have a nice quality luxmeter. Do I need it in order to set up the light ?
Thanks guys.
 
One more thing, I have a nice quality luxmeter. Do I need it in order to set up the light ?

Best idea is to use PAR-meter, instead. PAR corresponds to Photosynthetic Available Radiation, which measures the amount of photons in micromols corresponding to the wavelength range between 400 to 700 nm (the visible light). A luxmeter will integrate the total number of photons within its spectral response, which relies in a priori knowledge of the spectral information of the source, i.e. most of luxmeter have different options to track light, depending on the light source you are monitoring, so no very good for aquariums in which the spectral information of a given light can be very specific, and then many errors can come from this kind of measurements. Additionally, the information in lux is very difficult to translate to photon density, as it is integrating all the intensities per squared centimeter for specific wavelengths and for a given angular fraction and normalized to a given power. In plain words: luxmeter gives you information about the intensity of light respect to a source of reference, meanwhile a PAR-meter will give you the counting of photons per unit of surface and time within a given spectral band.

Regarding your other questions, with a PAR-meter, you can track the amount of light at substrate level, which is commonly fixed as adequate when reaches 40 PAR. Some people not growing carpeting plants aim less. This usually can be used to adjust parameters like the height, or dimming the lights with some tricks if is too much, and so on. Without that, the only way I see to control that is by essay/error: Playing with time, intensity and height of the lamp until you get it right. I think most people do this, as most do not have a PAR-meter.

Regarding the way to handle the light within the cycle, I think there is no much difference. A concept that usually is lost in translation is that what matters is the total amount of photosynthetic photons the plant get within a cycle, which can be obtained of various ways:

1. Strong lights, shorter periods of time.
2. Weaker lights, longer periods of time.
3. Distance of the lamp to the surface.
4. Height of the tank.
5. Spectrum of the bulbs.

Making the evolution of the light to evolve as in nature during the day it could seem better, but I really doubt makes any difference. However, doing so, it can become much complicated to tune the light, as you add also another variable to the system, which is a time dependent photon flow.

However, as said, using PAR can be misleading, because it does not matter your PAR if you do not control the time. In other words: you can have a different PAR but get success by just adjusting the times the lights are on. If less than 40, longer hours, if more than 40, less hours. I think PAR 40 is aimed for tanks with lights on 10h per day, and that can be of reference.

Hope this help.

Cheers,

Manuel
 
Hello Manuel,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I don't have a PAR-meter and I can't get one very easy. Regarding the light, I would prefer to have a low light for a long time, in order to see the tank and strong light for short time.
Now, 10 hours of low light it would be fine ? How long and how strong should be the intense light ?
The distance between the water and the lamp can be 30 cm. The tank is 50 cm height.
 
I suggest you read slowly through Mark Evans tank journals (I think most of them are in the Featured Journals section but you can also look them up through his profile page & then, select threads started by ...)

I'll fairly arbitrarily choose this one to start you off as tank is 120cm x 55cm x 55cm ... he includes outstanding photos & tank details, plays with lighting & fertilizers etc & there is loads of discussion worth thinking over.
 
I've run a 120 x 60 x 60 for many many years with 4 x 54w and two by 150w Halides at just 13cm above the water. All 4 and the halides lead to huge amounts of maintenance due to the speedy growth which I quickly tired of. I only use the halides for photos now....

Mine is in a pretty dark hall area that gets very little ambient light and running it on 4 x 10 hrs plus the other 2 for 4 hours gave me good results. I'm currently running 2 x 12 hours plus 2 by 3 hr later in the day but these are very old tubes and the tank is almost low tech. I suggest you experiment untill you get gentle pearling from the plants during the high intensity period. As the plants settle in you can add more light if you like, certainly a short spell of high intensity light seems to help make growth more compact and colourful in my experience.
 
I set the lamp at 40 cm above the water for a safe start. I want to use 2 lamps and I would like a burst. Is it a good ideea to have 3 hours of intense light ? What about the total photoperiod ?
 
A midday burst can be nice. I started off with lower steady light, but eventually added in a midday full sun burst. When it comes to light, I think erring on the side of caution is always useful. If it were me, I'd start off with a photoperiod around 5-6 hours and increase if things go smoothly/don't rapidly spiral out of control.
 
Hi Camelia, welcome.

starting with 5-6 hrs is plenty to start off, building up to 8 hrs over a few months.

Midday burst can be nice but also challenges you with co2 as you need 30ppm at lights on and also 30ppm with the high light burst but of course your co2 injection rate will be the same yet demand higher. If you run a high light burst for a few hours do it 4 hrs or so into the light period when the demand for co2 is somewhat lower than at lights on, then after the high light burst co2 would go off and youll start phasing the lights down to lights off.

Have you run high energy tanks before??
 
Thanks guys for the answers. Iain, I use a drop cheker and a pH controller. I want to make sure that I have good level of CO2 when I need. In the same time, I want o avoid the situation when pH is not reflecting the real CO2 level because the acidic substances disolved in the water. I am aiming for 30-35 mg/l of CO2. The injection procces start 2 hours before the lights go on. During the night, aeration with lily pipe is made, in order to improve oxygen level and help biological filtration.
I think I can manage midday burst without decreasing the CO2 level.
I will start with 5 hours using 2 tubes. Should I use the midday burst from the very begining ?
 
I dont have any experience with ph controllers, i know people like Viktor Lantros have made them work for them but by all accounts even then not as easy as it may sound. It would be worth looking through a few of his journals to find the one which runs ph controllers as there is a good amount of information.

Generally the first hour or so is where co2 is most critical and as such also where most people start to see the issues occur so mid day burst would be better placed a few hours in for safty however....

I am not intereseted in high growng rate, I prefer the safe way.
given this was your first brief id suggest a mid day burst is counter productive, keep it simple, 2 bulbs in a 50cm deep tank will probably give you close to 50 PAR at the substrate which will grow most plants, 4 bulbs will require more work and more religious cleaning/water changing etc with less margin for error. Any more than that and your up there with the big boys who have a wealth of experience/skill and ability to water change a few times a week.
 
I started today with 2 tubes for 5 hours. Lamp is 40 cm above the water level. I will come back with news. Thanks you so much for your advice.
 
pH is not reflecting the real CO2 level because the acidic substances disolved in the water.

I did read this statement before and evrytime i stumble over the question "What substances are we talking about here?" They must be rather agressive to radicaly change your ph even with a weekly water change done, which we all kinde do especialy when on co2 injection..

Me to i run co2 on a ph controller and for the fun of it also have a drop checker tho i didn't use it for the last month. I did for almost a year, even double checked the ph regularly it's constantly stable. I just can't see these substances suddenly come from anywhere.. What would be in our tanks able of doing that out of a sudden in such a drastic way it influences co2 levels to a problematic level?? :)
 
Hello,
It's 15 days since I started. The tank is really clean, not algae at all. The plants are generally in good shape, a few are melting. There is not sign of growth. What should be the next step ? Should I increase the light to 6 hours daily or should I decrease the distence between the lamp and the water ?
According to rotalabutterfly light calculator I have 31 PAR at substrate. I'm waiting for your opinion.
Regarding the pH drop, some substrates and fertiliser can decrease it. ADA substrates or easy carbo are just two examples.
 
A pogostemon helferi melted completed and a few leafs from the others. I found some holes in a few leafs of alternanthera reineckii mini. Hemianthus callitrichoides is "frozen", not a change since I planted it. I am not impatient, I just want to make things right.
My plants are:
- hemianthus callitrichoides
- alternanthera reineckii mini
- anubias nana
- pogostemon helferi
- staurogyne repens
- ammania bonsai
- hedyotis salzmannii
 
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