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Co2 and light timing

F

Franks

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26 Aug 2015
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Today I had time to monitor hourly the pH of the tank so I could perfect the light on time at the 1 pH point drop. I was surprised to see that even with a guesstimate 2 hour Co2 on prelight period, I still wasn't dropping enough pH.

Tank is 155 litres with loads of flow and surface agitation. Equally, I cut Co2 one hour before lights out but I only lose around 0.3pH.

It seems no one loads up on Co2 for three hours before lights on but I'm thinking I'll need to. I also think I can afford to cut Co2 two hours before lights out as it takes so long to dissipate anyway. Ultimately, it's just going to be a shift in the cycle.

Everyone seems to just do an hour before lights on but then everyone also seems to run 20 litre nanos toowhuch I guess dissolve much more quickly.

Do any larger tank owners notice a similar trend in their regime?

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Franks said:
Tank is 155 litres with loads of flow and surface agitation
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CO2 injection is a balancing act if you have loads of surface agitation then this will remove co2 from the water coloumn. you might want to reduce this a little bit to see if you can keep more co2 in the tank thus reducing the time it takes to reach the 1 point drop.
Injection rate, surface agitation and timing are the 3 variables you will need to adjust to get the balance right.
Also remember if there is livestock in the tank, when you make adjustments to the co2, you will need to be around to monitor it and make sure you don't add too much. If you do add to much co2 then you will need to remove it before it harms/kills your critters, this can be done by using an airstone or doing a large waterchange
 
It takes a little while after lights on for plants to wake up and start uptaking nutrients (including CO2) so it's not essential to reach max concentration before lights on. Hobbyists have different views on this, some will always advocate for max CO2 concentration prior to lights but I haven't found it necessary. I tried the max concentration before photoperiod by having CO2 on 3hrs before and didn't notice any difference.

I use a diffuser which isn't the best method for CO2 addition, a reactor would be better. Given this I run my CO2 2 hours before the photoperiod at the moment. My tank reaches max concentration (estimated ~30ppm) around 1 hour into the photoperiod. A reactor should reach this concentration much faster.
 
John S said:
There are people on here who start the CO2 three hours before lights.
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It all depends on the injection rate. Even In the past i used to have it runniing 24 hours. No harm done.

I have it running three hours before lights up and shuting down two hours before lights off. I do this cause i prefer a more slower injection for the same objective than a faster injection.

In a faster injection you are altering all water chemistry very faster and i do believe that this has greater impacts on live stock as in the water and consequent effects on plants.

In nature we do not have a swicth right? CO2 is always present.

That´s my point of vyew.

Don´t forget as recommended to be at home when altering CO2 injection.

Today I had time to monitor hourly the pH of the tank so I could perfect the light on time at the 1 pH point drop. I was surprised to see that even with a guesstimate 2 hour Co2 on prelight period, I still wasn't dropping enough pH.
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As for this kind of measuring, simply forget it. It is not a reliable method and was desmistified a long ago, but as you know things are not erased from the web even when it is proved that they are very wrong. The only and the best is the Drop Cheker.


Big hug to all.
 
After a few power cuts etc the timer on my lights went completely out of sync with the timer on my CO2, this was my fault because I always put the timer right on the light but forgot about the CO2, anyway I think it ended up being 4 hours apart I only realised what had happened after I developed a massive hair algae issue. Now I've got the lights and CO2 back to 1 hour apart and done allot of pruning to get rid of lots of the algae everything is back under control. I also got 6 oto's to help with the problem.

SO if you looking at adjusting to 3 hours apart keep an eye out for any signs of increased algae growth.
 
Thanks guys.
Seems odd to be reliant on just the DC as these are so far behind the true parameters. There's also the accuracy of the colour to gauge too. I bet you couldn't see a 0.3ph difference through DC colour change. The PH pen gives instant results.


Regarding the power cut, which way out was the gas timing - coming on 4 hours late or 4 hours early?

I think my tank takes a long time to fill up with Co2 and equally, it takes much longer than an hour for the pH to start returning. I'll see how it reacts to the current shift in Co2 timing.

Thanks





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Paulo Soares said:
As for this kind of measuring, simply forget it. It is not a reliable method and was desmistified a long ago, but as you know things are not erased from the web even when it is proved that they are very wrong.
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If this is such bad advice then why are 70% of co2 users on this forum using it?

Paulo Soares said:
The only and the best is the Drop Cheker.
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This is so untrue! What is good for one person does not make it the only and best way. If the truth be known it is the only way to measure the co2 concentration accurately but drop checkers are notorious for having a delay, that delay can be anything from 1/2 a hour to 3 hours depending on the drop checker and the solution used, so in my opinion you should use a d.c. to check the amount of co2 in the tank and use your ph pen to check the timing of the co2.

In my opinion, from what the OP had written it seemed that they were doing a fairly good job of finding their way with co2 injection and I didn't want to go into massive detail and end up confusing them.

Finally Paulo, I have read many of your posts and to be quite frank lots of them have been misleading. Remember many people on the forums are relatively new to co2 and offering different methods all at once can be very confusing to a beginner, often leading to failure and putting them off the hobby. Please be patient and allow people to try one thing at a time and see what happens, then if they are still having problems then offer them a different approach.
 
Big clown said:
If this is such bad advice then why are 70% of co2 users on this forum using it?
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Check Tom Barr report and you´ll find all explanations on this matter. There´s a topic of it.
And even on this forum the user Ceg also explains why that method is not a reliable one. I´m not inventing. And i also try it at home and never worked. So instead of him loosing time on this why not recomend DC method?
Why let a begginer (using your words) lose patient and time and money trying things that the specialists of this Hobby have proven to be wrong?

This is so untrue! What is good for one person does not make it the only and best way. If the truth be known it is the only way to measure the co2 concentration accurately but drop checkers are notorious for having a delay, that delay can be anything from 1/2 a hour to 3 hours depending on the drop checker and the solution used, so in my opinion you should use a d.c. to check the amount of co2 in the tank and use your ph pen to check the timing of the co2.
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As you can read i said that it all depends on the Injection rate!
OF course the reagent has a delay. It´s a matter of the begginer to watch and improve. If by the time lights went on the reagent is allready green than you know that you have Co2.
Suposed your lights went on at 15 PM. If by 14 PM your drop checker is allready green than you know that you´re injecting (injection rate) too much or you can reprogram the timer to star injecting one hour later.

And even if for instance at 16 Pm the drop checker is yellow he will know that it is injecting too much. Again : injection rate.

This is not a walk in park but it´s not also that dificult to balance.

I didn´t mention any reagent but he can buy the CAL AQua reagent. It´s allready calibrated in 30PPM.. that easy...

hugs to all
 
By the way.. i do also read you. But i never state that you are "misleading".
You know why? Cause I do understand (you don´t need to tell me) that when you coment or quote something that you are giving your point of view based on your own experience and others. No one is the God of thruth.

Good sense is needed when we are simply reading and not hearing the voice ;)

Quoting you:

"i had a tank which always had a green dc when lights were off and yellow when lights were on. it can become a problem overnight because plants and fish produce co2 at night and co2 levels could rise to toxic levels. if this happens then an airstone can be used to remove the excess co2 at night time"
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And that is one good reason for using Drop Checker and not PH method. But than again is my humble opinion.

Best regards
 
Isn't a drop checker a pH test essentially?

OP: Do your lights take time to ramp up to full intensity, or come on at 100%? I ask because this can affect plant uptake of CO2 also.
 
They are just on/off T5HO 6700k bulbs. I do have an hour of very dim led lights prior to T5's though. I've been reading and actually want to test a method of cutting the wavemaker during the day and running it only at night. I would think this would build Co2 much more quickly too. Dissipation through the night with the wavemaker on and also clearing any detrius from the day. The tank is much more pretty and natural when the plants aren't being blown around.

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And yes, the DC is effectively a ph measuring tool. Its made with a ph agent afterall. The instant results of a pen are much more ideal to tune light staging. Afterall, the DC might be 2 hours behind. If it's lime green when lights are just turning on,then you probably had enough gas an hour before when I was turning an off-blue colour?

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I am familiar with all the articles that you are quoting both here and on the Barr report and I'm not sure if you fully understand them or your poor english language skills are making your posts appear confusing. Judging by your reaction to my post you have misunderstood that too. I said in the following quote that drop checkers were the only way to measure co2 accurately
Big clown said:
If the truth be known it is the only way to measure the co2 concentration accurately but drop checkers are notorious for having a delay, that delay can be anything from 1/2 a hour to 3 hours depending on the drop checker and the solution used, so in my opinion you should use a d.c. to check the amount of co2 in the tank and use your ph pen to check the timing of the co2.
Click to expand...
 
Franks said:
And yes, the DC is effectively a ph measuring tool. Its made with a ph agent afterall. The instant results of a pen are much more ideal to tune light staging. Afterall, the DC might be 2 hours behind. If it's lime green when lights are just turning on,then you probably had enough gas an hour before when I was turning an off-blue colour?

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Do you have fish/ shrimp in the tank?
 
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