JamesC said:(...)you get more than enough from just the KNO3 alone(...)
I think I have a K deficiency and I know that I don't want to add any more N03 (have enough fish to do that for me) So how much K2S04 should I add to my EI dose when I'm currently dosing 6tsp of KN03 & 6tsp of KH2PO4 to 600ml water adding 50ml 3 times per week?keymaker said:JamesC said:(...)you get more than enough from just the KNO3 alone(...)
It obviously depends on the K amount of the tap water, but my experience tells me that you can simply not add enough K with KNO3 to get the coreesponding EI levels of K and NO3 in the tank. Most of the times you need to add K2SO4 - here in Hungary anyway - to compensate for the lower molar weight of K in the equation.
Adding more KNO3 would be one solution but in time it can result in excess levels of NO3 which to a certain point (untill say 50-60ppm) is OK for most (not all) fish and inverts, but why bother if one can get it right...
Say you have 0ppm K in your tap water. Add 80 grams of KNO3 to 1 liter DI water and dose daily 1ml/20l with 50% weekly water changes. You will get 19-34 ppm NO3 in your tank water and 13-23ppm K. It is therefore desirable to add 36 grams of K2SO4 to the solution to obtain 20-34ppm K in the water - to have something I call "PPM balance" in your dosing. I'm not saying this is absolutely needed, just recommend it to be on the safe side from the K deficiency signs on the plants.
Cheers Aaronaaronnorth said:K2CO3 will raise the alkalinity, and some people may , or may not want that, just a matter of preference really,
if you do want to raise the alkalinity, then you again have 2 choices... K2CO3 or NaCO3... it just gives you different options
Cro said:Cheers Aaronaaronnorth said:K2CO3 will raise the alkalinity, and some people may , or may not want that, just a matter of preference really,
if you do want to raise the alkalinity, then you again have 2 choices... K2CO3 or NaCO3... it just gives you different options
I fear I may have been editing my post above removing the question about K2C03 whilst you were typing your reply though, sorry.
240ltraaronnorth said:what size tank is it?
I have.ceg4048 said:While Keymaker raises an interesting point, I'd have to say that I've never seen a difference when adding K2SO4.
I remember you told me once something like that the EI dosage quantities should not be accepted by the parliament.ceg4048 said:A 13-23ppm K+ level should not cause any grief unless the lighting is absurdly high, in which case one is much more likely to see N and/or P starvation first. (...) I have no idea what "PPM Balance" is so I can't address that concept. If the concept is based on symmetry of mathematics in a spreadsheet then this is completely arbitrary.
Oh, yes, I completely agree. Most of the time it is CO2. And with proper KNO3 and KH2PO4 dosing you would indeed probably not need K2SO4. Unless you're like me, I'm just plain lazy to measure, think and re-check. So I keep ALL levels (including K with the addition of K2SO4) at the top. As easy as that.ceg4048 said:99 times out of a 100 you'll find that the deficiency is actually CO2 or a flow/distribution issue. The OP seems to think there is a K+ deficiency, but what is this assessment based on :?: Adding complication just adds another round of ammunition for the EI haters out there.
Aha, OK, that makes sense. But that also makes a difference. The basic principle is that if you are dosing the EI levels of KNO3 then you have enough K+. This principle applies whether you are using Hungarian, Chilean, British, RO, Egyptian, or even Mesopotamian water.keymaker said:I have.ceg4048 said:While Keymaker raises an interesting point, I'd have to say that I've never seen a difference when adding K2SO4.
It was not EI though.
It was TPN+ (low on K). I had to compensate with K2SO4 to get rid of deficiency - I was succesfull at that. I made no other changes. It was a cycled tank, proper CO2 dissolving and distribution, etc.
Haha, Yep that's right - but the idea is to establish the baseline. By the OP's own admission, he had arbitrarily deviated from the baseline numbers, had problems, and then just assumed that adding K2SO4 was necessary to fix the problems. I deduce that he started the thread thinking that the unauthorized deviations he made had nothing to do with his problems, and that because K2SO4 was not specified in the dosing schemes then K was the issue. I'm trying to recalibrate this thought process. Once the baseline is established, and once the issue of malnutrition is resolved, one can then easily deviate to fit the tanks unique properties. If the OP resets the tank, implements the baseline numbers (whether he uses my numbers or your spreadsheet) then in a few weeks he ought to be back on track.keymaker said:I remember you told me once something like that the EI dosage quantities should not be accepted by the parliament.ceg4048 said:A 13-23ppm K+ level should not cause any grief unless the lighting is absurdly high, in which case one is much more likely to see N and/or P starvation first. (...) I have no idea what "PPM Balance" is so I can't address that concept. If the concept is based on symmetry of mathematics in a spreadsheet then this is completely arbitrary.
Aha :!: - OK, well I've been informed by the Romulan Council that adding "PPM Balance" to the EI dictionary definitely requires Parliamentary approval.keymaker said:I agree that 23ppm K level should be fine. "PPM Balance" is indeed something I personally came up with - when doing my excel calculation. It is absolutely NOT based - as you call it - "on the symmetry of mathematics". It is based on the knowledge that levels of each nutrient have to be calculated and considered separately, and plants can not substitute one nutrient with the other --- and algae can bloom even if all nutrient levels are OK - except one.
I understand that mate, but what if someone doesn't know Excel spreadsheet? Or is unfamiliar with your personal expressions such as PPM Balance? We're trying to troubleshoot someone's tank located thousands of kilometers away. What's simple for us may not be simple for the OP. Simplicity involves not only a reduction in calculation (which you have executed brilliantly on the Excel) but also a reduction in the number of things to do. Adhere to the fundamental principles. Buy only the minimum items you need. Dose the baseline values. Reassess from there.keymaker said:..to keep it simple I just decided that I will keep ALL levels at the top of the EI range, or a bit above, to be on the safe side. I have the knowledge and tools to have precise (to the exact PPM) levels of ALL nutrients together and it does not require additional effort from me to do it.