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A newly discovered Pencilfish?!

Simon Cole

Simon Cole

Member
Joined
25 Dec 2018
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925
Location
Snowdonia
Nannostomus sp. var. Super Red Cenepa. This one should excite the masses:
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We don't know where it was collected from (it was Peru) or how many will be exported, or whether they will get a licence to ship to the UK. Nannostomus have a complex phylogeny and their taxonomic classification is continually shifting, there is also a lot of uncertainty regarding interbreeding and divergence. In reality, this species is already very rare and will undoubtedly be over collected due to it's rarity, so it might go extinct in the wild as people scramble to get hold of it. If it was the Panda, people might think twice. Personally I hope it breeds easily and is extensive, and unthreaded by the complete lack of protection and over-exploitation. It is hard to conceive how potentially newly-discovered species can go to widescale distribution, but they are already being exported from Peru and have already been shipped to collectors based in Hong Kong. Conservation just seems to go out the door. But if they breed, we could see more of them. They may even end up getting noticed by the scientific community before they are removed from the wild. Anyway, exciting news. They are beautiful. No females have been found yet, we suspect.
 
If they’re only going to Hong Kong they must be going for ridiculous money. If nannostomus mortenthaleri on average costs about 15quid these things must be going for big bucks. Hopefully some males and females are exported to somewhere like Germany where they can be bred.

I don’t remember what it was like when mortenthaleri and rubrocaudatus started getting exported but I can imagine it was a similar scenario.

Cheers
 
There's certainly an element of "get'em while they're hot" that drives over collection, especially anything that's the new must have or "super rare" species.
Super rare seems to be a phrase that gets used a lot and I always have to question why is something super rare, is it endangered/found in few numbers or are its care requirements demanding and therefore not commercially viable? Either way, should these 'super rare' species be made available to hobbyists in the first instance? Admittedly it's often just to entice sells with a feeling of exclusivity.
I hope they don't export just males like they did for a while with Sabwa resplendens.
 
The problem is anything new and expensive goes straight to Hong Kong/ the Far East as they’re more willing to pay the high prices. The another issue with this is it appears most people only buy one or a few to add to their “collection”. Now that is a bit of a generalisation and I could be wrong but most keepers when you look on YouTube just seem to have one or two of each species.

I looked into this species abit further and they found the gentlemen who purchased these in Hong Kong, he was asked whether there were any females in the shipment and he said he didn’t have a clue as he rushed and bought the nicest specimens 🙈

Hopefully it’s just a one of shipment if they keep making it into hands of collectors with no interest in breeding.

Cheers
 
Conort2 said:
he was asked whether there were any females in the shipment and he said he didn’t have a clue as he rushed and bought the nicest specimens 🙈
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Also worth remembering the collectors collect the brightest specimens, which generally equates to males, especially in breeding season.

Would I pay a small fortune for a sp that's yet to be identified.. duno... it could well be a different colouration of Nannostomus rubrocaudatus for all we know?

The experts will undoubtedly decide if this is indeed a new species, and that will take time.

BTW I'm not totally sceptical on this, new species of freshwater fish are discovered daily, that's whats so fascinating about this article. 😀
 
JeffK said:
Yes, it's already been identified as a colour morph of Nannostomus rubrocaudatus (Nannostomus cf. rubrocaudatus). Nonetheless, a beautiful fish.
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Was going to say it just looks like a really nice colour form of that species.
 
Simon Cole said:
so it might go extinct in the wild as people scramble to get hold of it
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Fascinating find Simon,

A little more info here

We should not seek to acquire this fish until it can be securely bred in captivity. With the exception of rare species, which should never be harvested on a commercial scale for obvious reasons, I am generally torn when it comes to anything wild caught. The ability to collect species that are plentiful in nature provides income for local economies and possibly helps with conservation efforts of natural habitats. Unfortunately, short-term income/gains too often takes precedence over conservation or longer term considerations. I personally refrain from buying any livestock that is not tank bred.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Funnily enough I'm completely different and as a pencilfish lover I think they aren't brown enough😁. The red covers where the interesting patterns would be. They look like a red salmon.
 
mort said:
Funnily enough I'm completely different and as a pencilfish lover I think they aren't brown enough😁. The red covers where the interesting patterns would be. They look like a red salmon.
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I know what you mean, I was drawing photos of my marginatus pencils yesterday and the 3 horizontal stripes are just so striking and beautiful. Plus the irridescence, which you can only really appreciate IRL. I do like the red, but I think the coral reds might still be nicer that these new guys.
 
mort said:
Funnily enough I'm completely different and as a pencilfish lover I think they aren't brown enough😁. The red covers where the interesting patterns would be. They look like a red salmon.
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Don’t let my coral reds hear you they’ll go on a rampage and nip all the brown and silver fish in my tank!
 
Hi all,
mort said:
Funnily enough I'm completely different and as a pencilfish lover I think they aren't brown enough
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shangman said:
I was drawing photos of my marginatus pencils yesterday and the 3 horizontal stripes are just so striking and beautiful. Plus the irridescence, which you can only really appreciate IRL
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I'm generally a <"tabby" fish fan"> as well.

cheers Darrel
 
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RickyV said:
Source?
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You know, I spend the better part of the evening trying to find the article and I feel like a proper idiot, but I can't seem to find it. Better yet, I've now read several claiming it to be a (probably) seperate species.

"However, what is important are the distinctive black spots in the lower lobe of the caudal fin. It is also interesting how the females of each species differ slightly in coloration."

www.foraquarist.com

Nannostomus sp. super red (pencil fish) - keeping, breeding, origin

dwarf cichlids, Nannostomus sp. super red (pencil fish) - iscovery of two new species of dwarf cichlids
www.foraquarist.com www.foraquarist.com

Next time, I'll make sure to add the source right away. If I do find it (it should be there somewhere, I have no idea how I'd come up with the bold claim otherwise), I'll make sure to send you the link.
 
JeffK said:
You know, I spend the better part of the evening trying to find the article and I feel like a proper idiot, but I can't seem to find it. Better yet, I've now read several claiming it to be a (probably) seperate species.

"However, what is important are the distinctive black spots in the lower lobe of the caudal fin. It is also interesting how the females of each species differ slightly in coloration."

www.foraquarist.com

Nannostomus sp. super red (pencil fish) - keeping, breeding, origin

dwarf cichlids, Nannostomus sp. super red (pencil fish) - iscovery of two new species of dwarf cichlids
www.foraquarist.com www.foraquarist.com

Next time, I'll make sure to add the source right away. If I do find it (it should be there somewhere, I have no idea how I'd come up with the bold claim otherwise), I'll make sure to send you the link.
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I appreciate it. I have a group of these fish and have been trying to find information on sexing/breeding them so that article was very helpful. Like that article most other sources also claim the females have no color. Out of a group of 300 fish I only had maybe 3 that had no color. I was thinking that maybe the people that are breeding them are actually cross breeding them with nannostomus rubrocaudatus.

I asked Oliver Lucanus from Below Water about this and he said the females are just a less intense color, oxblood while the males are a deep red. I also found another commenter on YouTube who claims to have bred them saying the same thing. But those are the only two sources I have saying that, but I think Oliver Lucanus is a pretty credible source. I was considering getting some rubrocaudatus females to try breeding them with the amayas/cenepas, but it sounds like they may indeed be different species. I am just hoping Oliver Lucanus is right because otherwise I may not have any females.
 
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