CO2 relationship to KH

[John q]

This question is difficult to prove experimentally

Not really, if Tonina can be grown in moderate kh levels your theoretical observations are mute, however, I suspect your observations are correct and most folks have success with this plant under lean dosing regimes, and low alkalinity. But... and there is always a but. 😀

 

[Oldguy]

I think that aquatic plants prefer dissolved carbon dioxide over dissociated carbon dioxide, though both go together.
A drop checker is the way forward though response is slow. An even slower but very reliable measure is snail shell thickness/colour.
Water of pH 8 and above and you are on an hiding to nothing. Nip the carbonate/hydroxide down to at least the bicarbonate with dilute hydrochloric acid. (Take care)
In artificial waters of our planted tank's pH and permanent hardness may not be related.

 

[John q]

An even slower but very reliable measure is snail shell thickness/colour.

For anybody trying to tune in co2 via snail shell attrition this is what a 2yr old nerite looks like under sustained 1 ph drops.

 

[Oldguy]

tune in co2 via snail shell attrition

My ramshorn snails, at about shirt button size, are pale and very thin shelled. I think that I have a balance between CO2 addition and a small self sustaining snail population. I assume the amano shrimps clean up the bodies.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My ramshorn snails, at about shirt button size, are pale and very thin shelled.

That is about <"where mine end up">. At the moment I have a fewer large ones, but the softer rainwater in the winter will probably see them off, unless I add <"enough tap water"> to keep them going.

An even slower but very reliable measure is snail shell thickness/colour.

It works <"surprisingly well"> as a bioassay.

cheers Darrel

 

[Andy Pierce]

It works <"surprisingly well"> as a bioassay.

Bit of a bummer for the snails in the bioassay though.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Bit of a bummer for the snails in the bioassay though

Yes, agreed I don't think "bioassay organism" is ever a great thing to be, I'd put it up there with "potential organ donor" & "crash test dummy".

......... Unfortunately we can't use either BOD test or biotic index for the aquarium, but we can use the health of a floating plant (floating to remove CO2 from the equation) as an indication of nutrient status. Sadly a lot of people use fish with high demands on water quality as a proxy biotic index, and rapidly kill off Hill-stream Loaches, large rheophilic plecs, Chocolate Gourami, Tropheus etc.........

Having said that I only originally had one Seminole Ramshorn (Planorbella duryi) snail (in ~2008) and these are all its descendents, so I've never ill treated them enough to wipe out the population.

I'm a great believer in <"finding livestock"> that will thrive in the conditions you can easily provide, rather than changing the parameters to suit the fish you want to keep. If I used our tap water I'd keep hard water livestock (and plants), and if I had very soft tap water and rain-water without any carbonate buffering? I'd keep "black-water" fish. Having said that <"adding salts to water"> is pretty easy, it is removing them that is problematic.

I actually maintain the dGH and dKH at a level that allows the survival of self-maintaining Physella acuta, Planorbella duryi and Melanoides tuberculata populations, because I'm a <"big snail fan">.

I don't keep snails that won't reproduce successfully in soft water, or definitely need <"harder water">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Oldguy]

Seminole Ramshorn (Planorbella duryi)

Mine came with plant(s), they just appeared. Pleased to have them and hopefully as a self sustaining colony. Always fought shy of hard water snails, though they do OK in the garden pond.