HMA filter

[Getthejist]

Hey guys,
I was thinking about getting a HMA filter but was wondering if anyone has actually used one of these and if they're any good. Also are they available in the U.K. Any help would be appreciated 😀 I'm not sure if this is in the right section but this is a filter so I posted here, sorry if this is the wrong place.

 

[JenCliBee]

They remove chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals amongst other things, avoids the need of using any dechlorinators and yes they are a very good piece of equipment to have.


There are many UK sources to obtain them..most RO stockist will stock them.

 

[ceg4048]

Hey guys,
I was thinking about getting a HMA filter but was wondering if anyone has actually used one of these and if they're any good. Also are they available in the U.K. Any help would be appreciated 😀 I'm not sure if this is in the right section but this is a filter so I posted here, sorry if this is the wrong place.

Hi,
It's always important to understand the objectives and goals whenever asking about equipment. What is it that you are trying to accomplish? Do you live in an area known to have heavy metals in the municipal water supply? Are you thinking of breeding inverts, or discus for example? HMA filters do not remove chlorine unless they specifically include a carbon stage. The resins used to remove heavy metals do not also remove chlorine. Any type of water conditioner brings with it a cost and complication, so it needs to be clarified what you intend to use it for in order to determine whether it's useful, or whether there are less costly or more convenient alternative products/procedures.

Cheers,

 

[geaves]

Is this the type of unit you were considering, I was also wondering if something like this could be used for water changes.

 

[JenCliBee]

Hey guys,
I was thinking about getting a HMA filter but was wondering if anyone has actually used one of these and if they're any good. Also are they available in the U.K. Any help would be appreciated 😀 I'm not sure if this is in the right section but this is a filter so I posted here, sorry if this is the wrong place.

Hi,
It's always important to understand the objectives and goals whenever asking about equipment. What is it that you are trying to accomplish? Do you live in an area known to have heavy metals in the municipal water supply? Are you thinking of breeding inverts, or discus for example? HMA filters do not remove chlorine unless they specifically include a carbon stage. The resins used to remove heavy metals do not also remove chlorine. Any type of water conditioner brings with it a cost and complication, so it needs to be clarified what you intend to use it for in order to determine whether it's useful, or whether there are less costly or more convenient alternative products/procedures.

Cheers,

The reason i stated that it removes chlorine because most standard HMA units come with a carbon block or cbr2 membrane.... i dont think it really matters weather your in a high metal area at all.... even if you have low levels, wouldn't it be beneficial the HMA unit to still remove these to benefit the fish?.

The resins used to remove heavy metals do not also remove chlorine

As far as i'm aware the cbr2 membrane does do this.

As to weather it would be beneficial to use one.... why not?.... it saves you adding a dechlorinator to the water and also makes water changes much easier..... there isn't any reason not to use one other than the outlay initially to buy the unit... if this isn't a problem then i cant see any real 'cons' against it.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
These are good for chloramine reduction, and might filter out pesticide traces as well, but the HM (Heavy Metal bit) of the HMA is now really irrelevant to us in the UK.

The EU levels for metals are really tight now, and all the water companies are treating their water supply with orthophosphates and NaOH injection. The phosphate causes "PIMS" (Phosphate Induced Metal Stabilisation) for the "control of plumbosolvency", and the sodium hydroxide keeps the pH alkaline. Realistically this means the chance of their toxic levels of copper or lead in your tap water is pretty well nil.

If I used tap water and had an HMA filter I'd use it, but I wouldn't go and by one specially. A cheaper option would be to use a small amount of di-sodium EDTA, or pond "Prime" etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[JenCliBee]

Hi Darrel.... so what your saying is there is no need for HMA units to remove heavy metals in the UK?..... so if i was in a soft water area (which i am) and wanted to keep discus, plecs... basically soft water fish, then the only benefit to HMA would be the ability to remove chlorine/chloramine?.

I use one for simplicity, because i keep plecs and i drop the water temp with a water change i re-fill straight from the unit which makes life so much easier.... albeit abit slow to fill... but with my back problems it can be a godsend lol.

 

[Getthejist]

Well I wanted it for my inverts and possibly for my main tank viewtopic.php?f=35&t=20624. I thought this would be better as it removes the chlorine and chloramines but dechlorinater only binds them (correct me if I'm wrong). Also I wanted some quite sensitive shrimp and I don't want to take any chances. Also I don't want one plumbed into my tap but thats the general idea.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Hi Darrel.... so what your saying is there is no need for HMA units to remove heavy metals in the UK?..... so if i was in a soft water area (which i am) and wanted to keep discus, plecs... basically soft water fish, then the only benefit to HMA would be the ability to remove chlorine/chloramine?.

Yes, pretty much. If you pH test your water you will probably find the pH is in the pH8 range, but the dKH (carbonate or temporary hardness) is still 1 or 2 dKH. This makes water management more difficult, as it isn't always easy to persuade some-one who finds their water is now alkaline that they still need to add some carbonate buffering to it. Personally I would always prefer rain-water, but if I had to use the "alkaline, but soft" tap supply I would sphagnum peat filter it (to add some DOC and act as a chelator) and exchange any cations, and then add a small amount of carbonate buffering via crushed oyster-shell. If you didn't want to use sphagnum peat, you could use EDTA to sequester any metal ions.
With apologies for the cross-post, but some details here: "My water conditions, help, do I need RO or HMA or neither.": <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8904>

I thought this would be better as it removes the chlorine and chloramines but dechlorinater only binds them (correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, a de-chlorinator does bind to the free chlorine ions. It is the sodium thiosulphate pentahydrate which is the active ingredient. The reaction is:

Na2S2O3•5H2O + Cl2 = 2 NaCl + Na2S4O6 (salt + sodium dithionate)

Chlorine will de-gas naturally fairly quickly, but chloramine is more of a potential problem due to the ammonia.
We don't know how Prime works, but there is a patent for Amquel <http://www.novalek.com/archive/kpd58.htm>, and it would be safe to conclude it is similar.

Also I wanted some quite sensitive shrimp and I don't want to take any chances. Also I don't want one plumbed into my tap but thats the general idea.

I'd probably go for 100% RO (or rainwater) re-mineralised.

cheers Darrel

 

[Getthejist]

I was actually going to use a HMA filter as someone who breeds quite a lot of shrimp uses HMA because it doesn't take out the minerals. Also I don't really know how to go about remineralising RO water. By RO or rainwater do you mean RO or rainwater or re-mineralising or rainwater? Is there a topic on how to re-mineralise RO?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

because it doesn't take out the minerals

This is true, the Bristol Plec breeders cut their RO with HMA water, rather than re-mineralising it with salts, as the Bristol water tap is reasonable quality, but high in calcium carbonate. The HMA is a "belt and braces" approach and ensures that no chloramine or pesticide residues end up in the tank.

By RO or rainwater do you mean RO or rainwater or re-mineralising or rainwater?

I use 100% rain-water without re-mineralising, but I live in an area where it is all limestone, and the rain-water picks up calcium carbonate from dust in the air, on roofs etc. If you lived in a high rain-fall area with little industry and non-calcareous geology your rain-water would need re-mineralising.

Is there a topic on how to re-mineralise RO?

A good one at the excellent "James' Planted Tank" <http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm>

cheers Darrel

 

[Getthejist]

I'm still quite confused, should I use an HMA filter? I'd really don't want to mess with RO water and I don't want to have to buy an RO unit and a HMA unit as this would be quite useless as I don't have enough tanks or big enough tanks to make it worth while.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I don't think you need the HMA filter or RO, but if you use tap water it restricts what you can keep, and you have the possibility of emergency chloramine dosing by your water company.

If I was forced to use tap water, rather than rain water, I would have to keep fish that like hard water, and either use a water conditioner like Prime or Amquel, or pre-age the water in a container with floating plants and some circulation.

The second option would be my preferred one, but I'm not sure it would be my better halfs.

cheers Darrel