LondonDragon
Member
Quick one, I have been thinking about doing something salty for a while, just wondering what is the process to make water from scratch and does it have to be RO?
Cheers
Cheers
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Making marine water
- Thread starter LondonDragon
- Start date
How exciting!
Personally, I measure out how much water I need (using RO water) and then add 38g of my specific salt per litre and that usually gets 1.024-1.025 specific gravity. I now mix it by hand until it's all suspended and nicely mixed and then use an Anova immersion heater to finish it off whilst I do other things. It mixes it around like a powerhead but also heats it to a precise temperature and beeps when done.
Ideally I would leave it overnight with a heater but sometimes you need water in a pinch. If you have the space you could mix it up and store it but I don't have the space.
I haven't tried with anything other than RO but the general consensus is that the fluctuating parameters of tap water don't play nicely with saltwater. Particularly London tap water!
seedoubleyou
Member
Definitely want RO (neat, do not re mineralise)
Depending on tank size there are many options.
Natural sea water (really easy as it comes from the sea)
Concentrated saltwater like ATI absolute ocean.
Synthetic salt (brand not important for a FOWLR)
For corals, Redsea, Tropic Marin, IQuatics, Quantum are all great brands, but there are many more.
I never used to bother with hearing as a good quality salt will mix with no issues and the change is so small on a reef tank that the temperature doesn’t matter. IMO
Depending on tank size there are many options.
Natural sea water (really easy as it comes from the sea)
Concentrated saltwater like ATI absolute ocean.
Synthetic salt (brand not important for a FOWLR)
For corals, Redsea, Tropic Marin, IQuatics, Quantum are all great brands, but there are many more.
I never used to bother with hearing as a good quality salt will mix with no issues and the change is so small on a reef tank that the temperature doesn’t matter. IMO
seedoubleyou
Member
It’s very important to stay ontop of your RO unit with a reef tank, because the slightest variation in water will slowly cause an issue before you’ve even realised.
I personally never stored water longer than a week or two as it can eventually pick stuff up from your plastic containers. Slightly pedantic but not uncommon.
I personally never stored water longer than a week or two as it can eventually pick stuff up from your plastic containers. Slightly pedantic but not uncommon.
john6
Member
I find that in reefing people tend to over complicate things unnecessarily.
Mixing salt water is a simple process.
Make some RO water (0 TDS) you will probably need DI resin as your final stage.
Pick your salt, salt is salt, they only differ what their levels are. Dont be fooled by salts claiming this, that and the other. Pick a salt closest to the parameters you want or is.
Add recommended salt to water and mix according to instructions.
Test salinity and adjust salt or water as necessary to reach 35 ppt or 1.026.
Thats it, simple
Mixing salt water is a simple process.
Make some RO water (0 TDS) you will probably need DI resin as your final stage.
Pick your salt, salt is salt, they only differ what their levels are. Dont be fooled by salts claiming this, that and the other. Pick a salt closest to the parameters you want or is.
Add recommended salt to water and mix according to instructions.
Test salinity and adjust salt or water as necessary to reach 35 ppt or 1.026.
Thats it, simple
seedoubleyou
Member
Half agree with @john6 . People really do over complicate things in reef keeping. However a salt really isn’t just a salt. Some mix far better than others, some are far more consistent than others, some far more expensive and some just outright rubbish.
I definitely agree with find a salt that sits within the parameters you want and then keep your tank within that range.
I definitely agree with find a salt that sits within the parameters you want and then keep your tank within that range.
LondonDragon
Member
Many thanks guys, I am not keen on the RO route, so I will be scrapping these plans and keep things as they are, since I have no options for the waste water.
seedoubleyou
Member
There are options for setting up zero waste RO systems. Or you can buy from the LFS, or buy NSW from the natural sea water supplier, based in Croydon but delivers
LondonDragon
Member
I will look at the supplier options and see if that is feasible, might have to wait until I move 😉
many thanks 🙂
G
Guest
Guest
Short answer is no. I kept a reef tank back in the day and used hard tap water which I mixed with synthetic saltwater mix to the required specific gravity (SG) at the desired temp in a plastic dustbin. I used a Whisper air pump hooked up to a wooden airstone to aerate and circulate the water overnight to remove chlorine first and then thereafter to prevent the water stagnating until needed for water changes.
As far as I can remember the inhabitants thrived. Back then my setup was very Heath Robinson and cost a few hundred quid. I never tested the tank water for anything other than SG and pH to maintain water quality.
I'm guessing reefers would lambast me mercilessly for such a slapdash method now, but back then it was the usual practice. Funny how tech moves on and companies find a multitude of ways to unnecessarily complicate matters and separate folk from common sense and hard earned cash.
I think it's really just a question of osmoregulation, maintaining a constant SG to lessen the stress on marine critters. The type of ions in tap water shouldn't really make a significant difference. IME the harder the water the better since it requires less synthetic mix to reach the required SG and has a greater buffering capacity and therefore is perhaps more stable.
seedoubleyou
Member
Although I agree that the industry has led us down a narrow path to products that we have to have, and simply cannot do “without”.
If you’re intent is to grow coral. I seriously wouldn’t advise tap water.
I agree, it was probably the method many a moon ago when reef keepers kept nuke proof corals that where dull in colour and wouldn’t receive a second look in todays hobby (just my opinion).
There are many elements that’s can affect the health of a reef tank. From your inverts to the coral.
If you’re intent is to grow coral. I seriously wouldn’t advise tap water.
I agree, it was probably the method many a moon ago when reef keepers kept nuke proof corals that where dull in colour and wouldn’t receive a second look in todays hobby (just my opinion).
There are many elements that’s can affect the health of a reef tank. From your inverts to the coral.
G
Guest
Guest
Yes, I guess like most things the hobby has undoubtedly moved on since the dark ages of its inception which I think I caught the tail end of. But just out of interest, to which species of coral are you referring as dull and nuke proof as opposed to those that require RO water? And what exactly are the elements you refer to that can affect the health of a reef tank?
But a non RO reef tank is possible, right? Perfectly willing to concede to better knowledge, TBH it's been a while. And maybe it'll better inform coral and critter choices for the non RO marine tank, if the distinction really matters.
john6
Member
@seedoubleyou is right about not using tap water, it will just lead to more trouble down the line.
Salt mixes are designed to be used with RO water.
If you do intend to keep corals then i suggest you do some serious reading, it is not a one size fits all situation. There are a myriad of different corals that need differing needs of feeding and water params.
My advice is read, read, read and when you've finished reading, read some more.
Ultimate Reef forum is a great place to start, as is reef2reef forum.
Get it right and it will take a mortgage, get it wrong and it will lead to bankruptcy (bit extreme i know but you get my point)
Salt mixes are designed to be used with RO water.
If you do intend to keep corals then i suggest you do some serious reading, it is not a one size fits all situation. There are a myriad of different corals that need differing needs of feeding and water params.
My advice is read, read, read and when you've finished reading, read some more.
Ultimate Reef forum is a great place to start, as is reef2reef forum.
Get it right and it will take a mortgage, get it wrong and it will lead to bankruptcy (bit extreme i know but you get my point)
seedoubleyou
Member
Mainly tanks that where wall to wall soft corals, Xenia, green star polyps, leather corals, sinularia, mushrooms, palys, gorgonians etc….. now I’m not saying that theses corals don’t have a place, nor am I saying that a soft coral reek tank is underrated. Reef Keeper in Moss End has a lovely display.
I’m talking about the general home reef 15+ years ago was pretty dull with easy corals. (Yes you’d likely come across tanks with euphyllia, Acropora, meaty LPS line acans etc)
As for tap water, yes hard water will be slightly denser and have a specific gravity, but with this comes many elements typically from old pipework like zinc, copper, aluminium, arsenic, boron, lead, mercury, sodium.
Without regular ICP testing these would build up and become problematic, especially Po4. How would you reduce these when exchanging water with the same tap water that’s importing them?
I’m sure you’ve seen inside an RO unit once it’s exhausted.
I’m talking about the general home reef 15+ years ago was pretty dull with easy corals. (Yes you’d likely come across tanks with euphyllia, Acropora, meaty LPS line acans etc)
As for tap water, yes hard water will be slightly denser and have a specific gravity, but with this comes many elements typically from old pipework like zinc, copper, aluminium, arsenic, boron, lead, mercury, sodium.
Without regular ICP testing these would build up and become problematic, especially Po4. How would you reduce these when exchanging water with the same tap water that’s importing them?
I’m sure you’ve seen inside an RO unit once it’s exhausted.
G
Guest
Guest
I suspect you may well be right. But it sounds like a challenge to me. Which I might take up. I’m always very sceptical of such claims.
Maybe clever marketing has created and cemented current reef paradigms in to dogma.
Either way it’s something that has captured my attention. I’ll do some serious research. Not least in to the tolerance of corals to water quality etc.
Maybe clever marketing has created and cemented current reef paradigms in to dogma.
Either way it’s something that has captured my attention. I’ll do some serious research. Not least in to the tolerance of corals to water quality etc.
You could try a British cold water marine tank, it is extremely rare to see a nice well kept one!
Many of the creatures available can be collected by yourself and if you stick to above the half tide mark, you will have access to some of the most rubust marine creatures in the world that are really quite difficult to kill!
You could start with a basic set up and if you wish you can develop the tank by using an chiller and start collecting creatures and fish from below the half tide mark.
So many stunning fish, seaweeds, corals and anemones to be collected and all for free!
It has aways amazed me why so many UK folk spend an abslute fortune of tropical marine set ups when we are surrounded by our own sea!
Many of the creatures available can be collected by yourself and if you stick to above the half tide mark, you will have access to some of the most rubust marine creatures in the world that are really quite difficult to kill!
You could start with a basic set up and if you wish you can develop the tank by using an chiller and start collecting creatures and fish from below the half tide mark.
So many stunning fish, seaweeds, corals and anemones to be collected and all for free!
It has aways amazed me why so many UK folk spend an abslute fortune of tropical marine set ups when we are surrounded by our own sea!
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seedoubleyou
Member
There’s absolutely scope for that. And perhaps such a test is already out there. I’d imagine BRStv may have done something like this.
There’s definitely stigma in both side of our hobby, reef keepers are obsessed with numbers and parameters Becasue companies have created test kits for everything.
I never tested my tank for anything, I either made water or bought it and just unserved the health of things in my tank.
I was thinking about that myself some time back, making it from the raw salts! but don't mention it to @Hanuman as he probably have a few choice words to pm me 😂
What is this? English humor? Making fun of me while being asleep, Milord? Easy. Now that I am awake things are about to change. Get ready. 😜
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