crazyhorse
Member
Hi guys!My microsorum doing fine last year. But suddenly brown leaves and spots appear
I dose K2HPO4 3ppm and KNO3 20ppm per week
light osram floura 0.5 W per liter
CO2 add
Whats wrong with it ?
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Microsorum/java fern brown spots
- Thread starter crazyhorse
- Start date
Hi guys!My microsorum doing fine last year. But suddenly brown leaves and spots appear
I dose K2HPO4 3ppm and KNO3 20ppm per week
light osram floura 0.5 W per liter
CO2 add
Whats wrong with it ?
crazyhorse
Member
Hi guys lets update you on this subject
After suffering few months and trying to solve misterious problem I finally got it. (hope so for good).
I suspect this brown spot come from algae. Then I remembered I got jJBL AquaBasis Plus in jbl manado substrate (dont know why add it)
So I empty my tank and get rid off JBL AquaBasis Plus . This way I probably stoped excessive makros in my tank and that way algae bloom. Now I got nice green leaves again
After suffering few months and trying to solve misterious problem I finally got it. (hope so for good).
I suspect this brown spot come from algae. Then I remembered I got jJBL AquaBasis Plus in jbl manado substrate (dont know why add it)
So I empty my tank and get rid off JBL AquaBasis Plus . This way I probably stoped excessive makros in my tank and that way algae bloom. Now I got nice green leaves again
Brown spots are caused by insufficient CO2 relative to the amount of light.
Excessive NPK does not cause algae.
JBL Aquabasis Plus has nothing to do with brown spots.
Cheers,
Excessive NPK does not cause algae.
JBL Aquabasis Plus has nothing to do with brown spots.
Cheers,
crazyhorse
Member
JBL Aquabasis Plus has nothing to do with brown spots but my aquarium was in bloom of algae, thats why I get rid of JBL Aquabasis Plus and now I have no problems with algae and leaves are green 🙂
PS Everything else lighting, macro, micro dosing, are same as before and CO2 wasnt insufficient
PS Everything else lighting, macro, micro dosing, are same as before and CO2 wasnt insufficient
Yes, your algal blooms had nothing to do with JBL Aquabasis.
When you made the change you undoubtedly did other things, perhaps unwittingly to improve the conditions in the tank.
Other folks use JBL Aquabasis all the time without getting brown spots on their ferns, so it alone cannot be blamed.
It is very easy to say, but difficult to actually keep everything the same, even from day to day, and the only way you can tell if your CO2 is insufficient is if the plants tell you that.
The way they tell you is the type of failure they experience. Brown spots is one such way. Browning is always related to poor CO2. Another way they tell you is they type of algae that the tank suffers, so that any type of hair or filamentous algae, or red algae such as BBA, or Rhizo, or Clado is related to poor CO2.
It's good news that you're not having problems now though.
Cheers,
When you made the change you undoubtedly did other things, perhaps unwittingly to improve the conditions in the tank.
Other folks use JBL Aquabasis all the time without getting brown spots on their ferns, so it alone cannot be blamed.
It is very easy to say, but difficult to actually keep everything the same, even from day to day, and the only way you can tell if your CO2 is insufficient is if the plants tell you that.
The way they tell you is the type of failure they experience. Brown spots is one such way. Browning is always related to poor CO2. Another way they tell you is they type of algae that the tank suffers, so that any type of hair or filamentous algae, or red algae such as BBA, or Rhizo, or Clado is related to poor CO2.
It's good news that you're not having problems now though.
Cheers,
crazyhorse
Member
thx ceg 
Deanne
Member
Hi, I don’t know if this is hijacking your thread, but I have similar problems in my shrimp tank, the java fern in there is spotty and has poor growth, there is subwassertang, java moss and water wisteria there but they are ok and growing well. I was looking for advice on a fertiliser but came on this instead. The bioload is very small, and tests never show nitrates. I thought Java fern was good for low tech tanks. Is there anything I can do to improve the situation for this plant. I do have an oxidator in there for my Yellow Sakura Shrimp.
crazyhorse
Member
If you low on nitrates why dont you add some 5-10ppm maybe. Use something for "K" like profito from easy-life like I do. Spotty java maybe suffer from poor K
Cactusface
Member
Hi Guys,
I was told long ago that the brown spots are normal, and have something to do with spores and reproduction?? I can only say that the best Java ferns I had, that really grew, had them.
Hope it helps, Regards.
Mel.
I was told long ago that the brown spots are normal, and have something to do with spores and reproduction?? I can only say that the best Java ferns I had, that really grew, had them.
Hope it helps, Regards.
Mel.
Edvet
Member
zozo
Member
Java fern as easy as it is following description also is one of the slowest around. Especialy in a low energy invironment. That's also what makes this plant very hard to read to get an indication. If yuo have other plants growing well, than likely there aint a defficiency. Well maybe a defficiency in patience.. If you realy like a big lush green java fern in the shortest periode possible you definitively need to add CO². In a low energy chances are you need a few years. Java fern leaves don't live for ever, they have a life cycle.
Brown spots could indicate it's at the end of it, some just wither away others develop new plantlets at it's underside.. Size says nothing about it's age. Brown spots never cure, so even if you change fert regime it'll take to long for your java to show that, it will tell you nothing. Rather focus on other faster growing plants as indicator..
about 2 years ago i setup my low energy and did put in about 5 different Microsorum sp. (Orange, taiwan, needle, philipine, regular) all where submersed form grown in a CO² invironment. Some where rather big.. But 80% from the mature leaves died with in a few months from the sudden transplant chock and i had to start over from scractch. From the Orange i only have some tiny young new plantlest left over, the needle leaf i can't seem to find back. The only sp. still obviously present and grwoing are the Tawian, the regular and the philipine.. The rest remain a mystery and no idea if i ever see them again. But i have time. Tho for a low energy i think the Orange was a waste of money.. In a low energy this likely never grow into an orange and stay indistinguishable from any other regular java fern.
So also when you buy it from the LFS it likely is a emersed grown plant from the nursery, it will likely suffer a transplant shock going submersed. There is no garanty all adult leaves will survive this. If they don't they can die as slow as they grow. 🙂
Brown spots could indicate it's at the end of it, some just wither away others develop new plantlets at it's underside.. Size says nothing about it's age. Brown spots never cure, so even if you change fert regime it'll take to long for your java to show that, it will tell you nothing. Rather focus on other faster growing plants as indicator..
about 2 years ago i setup my low energy and did put in about 5 different Microsorum sp. (Orange, taiwan, needle, philipine, regular) all where submersed form grown in a CO² invironment. Some where rather big.. But 80% from the mature leaves died with in a few months from the sudden transplant chock and i had to start over from scractch. From the Orange i only have some tiny young new plantlest left over, the needle leaf i can't seem to find back. The only sp. still obviously present and grwoing are the Tawian, the regular and the philipine.. The rest remain a mystery and no idea if i ever see them again. But i have time. Tho for a low energy i think the Orange was a waste of money.. In a low energy this likely never grow into an orange and stay indistinguishable from any other regular java fern.
So also when you buy it from the LFS it likely is a emersed grown plant from the nursery, it will likely suffer a transplant shock going submersed. There is no garanty all adult leaves will survive this. If they don't they can die as slow as they grow. 🙂
At times I wonder if posters who answer posts actually read the OP and try to analyze the OP's problem.
The OP quite clearly states that the tank is a CO2 injected tank and that the ferns were doing fine for some time until recently. It was specifically stated that the plants in question were doing fine "...Last Year..." which implies they have been green and healthy for a minimum of 9.75 months in the tank.
Unless the OP wrote incorrectly, they were NOT just bought and NOT just put in the tank and therefore these cannot be emmersed leaves.
Fern leaves do not all of a sudden wither/brown across all the leaves at the same time as depicted in the photo. Individual fronds do wither, but rarely all simultaneously.
It is also not true that because a fault appears in only a single plant as opposed to widespread symptoms, that this automatically means that there is not a deficiency.
Different plants will have differing levels of energy reserves, or they will have different tolerances for deficiencies, or their different location in the tank may yield a different flow rate and distribution of CO2/nutrients, or different lighting. There are thousands of combinations which may expose an acute deficiency in one plant and not in others in the same tank.
Browning and necrosis in a CO2 injected tank indicates poor CO2 delivery to that plant, regardless of others. It may also indicate a chronic deficiency, tolerated by other plants but which, in the future, if not corrected may later show up in the other plants.
The OP is advised to review the CO2 technique and may wish to reduce the lighting for the moment to try and save the plant.
Cheers,
The OP quite clearly states that the tank is a CO2 injected tank and that the ferns were doing fine for some time until recently. It was specifically stated that the plants in question were doing fine "...Last Year..." which implies they have been green and healthy for a minimum of 9.75 months in the tank.
Unless the OP wrote incorrectly, they were NOT just bought and NOT just put in the tank and therefore these cannot be emmersed leaves.
Fern leaves do not all of a sudden wither/brown across all the leaves at the same time as depicted in the photo. Individual fronds do wither, but rarely all simultaneously.
It is also not true that because a fault appears in only a single plant as opposed to widespread symptoms, that this automatically means that there is not a deficiency.
Different plants will have differing levels of energy reserves, or they will have different tolerances for deficiencies, or their different location in the tank may yield a different flow rate and distribution of CO2/nutrients, or different lighting. There are thousands of combinations which may expose an acute deficiency in one plant and not in others in the same tank.
Browning and necrosis in a CO2 injected tank indicates poor CO2 delivery to that plant, regardless of others. It may also indicate a chronic deficiency, tolerated by other plants but which, in the future, if not corrected may later show up in the other plants.
The OP is advised to review the CO2 technique and may wish to reduce the lighting for the moment to try and save the plant.
Cheers,
zozo
Member
I actualy didn't realy answer to analyze the problem, tried to give some general information i personaly experience with differnet sp of java fern in 3 different tanks at the same time.
This is indeed what i fully agree with and makes it very difficult to analyze anything from a close up shot from a few leaves.
And i aslo experience Java doing nothing all of a sudden. (Maybe TS perceives it like that, i do not know.) Everything this plant does, it does to slow to use it as an indicator.. It actualy is a plant that got me scratch me self behind the ears and wonder quite a lot.. had different sp. of it simultaniously in 3 different tanks and the tank i give least of all attention, never fertilize and has no co2 it stayed in rather good health. Also got a bigger low tech in th eliving room with a lot of java ferns where i experienced a lot of die off from older leaves and now does good, but now and then i have to take out a dead leaf, Starts with browning, than yellowing and than lets loose. Actualy a typical sign of potassium/phospate deficientcy, but this i add enough. So it might be indeed co2 deficiency which makes leaves live less longer and grow much smaller. Also grew it fro 2 years in a high tech, it got bigger and much more healthy looking plant. I ran out of co2 about 6 months ago and i reverted the tank back to low tech. And witnessed leaves dying in the same fashion as the pic above shows. Not all and not all of a sudden but in a few months, overall the plant is still healthy.
So having different sp. of this plant in 3 completely different tanks for several years i experience this plant beeing less easy as described and makes you believe and it's also very sp. dependent. I still don't know what to think of it. In the tank i give the least attention and no ferts this plant gives me the least questions.. So i decided to stop wondering and let time take its cause. The plant finaly addapts anyway.
I bought a huge Microsorum Orange, beautyful stunning plant with bright orange leave tips. I planted it to a piece of dw and it started propagating like mad on about each leave it had. Every leave died and i was left with only a number of healthy babies looking simular to about 3 other sp. i have. Since i had so much and little room to keep it all seperate i mixed it up and can't say anymore which is which. The mother completely died in a few months time, not all of a sudden and the babies are still healthy in the same water. beats me.
