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Par

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21 Oct 2018
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Yorkshire
I've replaced my two t8 fluorescent tubes to two t8 LEDs . The LEDs say the par is 167 at 20cm. If the LEDs are around 50cm above the substrate level would the par drop off alot? There is two of them so they should be ok for a low tech?
 
. If the LEDs are around 50cm above the substrate level would the par drop off alot?
Yes, the par will drop quite significantly.
Without getting to technical for you, and me, we can use a formula called the Inverse Square law to try and work it out. Basically if the distance doubles the light intensity can be divided by 4.
Inverse_Square_Law_Gray_2_0d78dc26-385c-46da-adbd-973e0d09edd2_480x480.jpg

If we raised the light to 40cm it would equate to 167 ÷ 4 = 41.75 par.
In your case at 50cm the par output would be around 26.72.
This isn't exact science in an aquarium full of water, refraction, reflection and shading will throw these numbers off, but it will be near enough 😉

If you have two of these fixtures in a low tech tank you have ample light and may well have to raise the lights further or dim them a tad.
 
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Plus what's the output of the original T8 ? T8 output vary from different types and is usual in lumens and there isn't an accurate conversion from Lumens to PAR or watts esp when comparing between light sources of different technologies.

PAR data is the only data which is really useful for our tanks and manufactures of light sources don't often supply PAR data IMO
 
Yeah don't get to technical I'm a simpleton haha. The t8s I took out 30 watts each they was fluval aqua glo 90cm I don't have the box anymore for any additional info and I can't find any fine details online. They are dimmable so I'll just have to give it a while and go from there. I was thinking about modifying the lid and having the t8s and LEDs but think that a recipe for an algae farm in a low tech. The LEDs are so much brighter than the old t8s for sure though.
 
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Just to complete the circle. Each of those original T8 tubes provides 900 Lumens.

View attachment 217109
Wow your obviously better than me at this internet thing I couldn't find it anywhere I looked at about 10 websites. Tha you for that John. I put the LEDs in yesterday and boy the plants are literally up almost illuminated. I know pearling only happens with co2 but my valis I've had in there for about two months was absolutely benine didn't grow at all, no taller or any new leafs or runners just stayed the same. After an hour or so the LEDs were in the valis started bleeding and realising O2 bubbles which it never did with the old t8s and it's doing it again today in a different place with no visible wound to the leaf. My crypts have bubbles under the leafs and the sessiflora all point towards the light now like arrows and they close up at night now which they did neither with the other t8s. I think it's safe to say these LEDs are alot more potent that the t8s. I was sceptical because they are retro fit. It's the super fish retro bright 900mm was £37 each I'm pretty happy with that when you can buy a fluval aqua sky for triple the price and I don't think the fluval are much better other than colour changing I had it in the past and it didn't light up my old tank like these do.
 
formula called the Inverse Square law to try and work it out
As optics and light can at times be counter intuitive, perhaps it is useful to dive a bit deeper here.

First, we observe a perfect point source as below

1745200140159.png


The point source radiates in all directions, and we have spherical symmetry. When we place light detectors, the cameras, at any position on a sphere the measured light intensity will be identical. All light from the source passes through the sphere, which has a surface area proportional to r squared. This means that the light intensity as measured by our detector, placed at the sphere’s surface must be inversely proportional to r squared.

Now let’s have a look at a long line of light sources, similar to a luminescent tube or array of LED’s.

1745200329275.png

The symmetry has now changed to a long cylinder. The surface area of the cylinder is proportional to r, no longer r squared as in the point source, and we conclude that our light intensity as measured by a detector placed on the cylinder is inverse proportional to r. So the inverse r squared rule does not longer apply here, with the most commonly used sources for our hobby.

We can go one step further, we take a infinitely large flat plane filled with light sources.


1745200348161.png


In this case our symmetry will be represented by a box, and the light intensity hitting the detector at the surface of the box will not longer be dependent on the distance from light sources to detector.

Let’s now take the example of a 1 meter long tank, with an LED bar that measures 1 meter by 10 cm. Same holds for fluorescent tubes above the tank.
  • When we observe from a very large distance, perhaps 10-100 meter, our light source will look very small, almost as a nearly perfect point source. In this case our first scenario applies and we can estimate that light intensity will be roughly (indeed a very simplified model) proportional to the inverse of the distance squared. But of course, not many tanks are this big.
  • When we get closer, let’s say one meter or less, then our source look like a long line source, and following our second scenario we see the intensity roughly proportional to the inverse of the distance. Note, that this is the most relevant observation for our aquarium hobby.
  • When we get really close to our light source, say 0.1 meter or less, then the observer sees more like a large flat plane (in two directions) with light emitters, and according to the third scenario we have a constant light intensity that is no longer dependant of the position of our detector.
The above is all simplified, but it does illustrate that there is no easy answer to light intensity at different distances. The most satisfying answer for our hobby would be to assume inverse proportional to distance, rather than inverse proportional to the square of distance that is sometimes assumed.

Also:
As we can see from the above, the light intensity in our tanks may have large variations, like 50% or more, depending on position under the light source and depth. While it is important to have at least a decent indication of our PAR, it usually does not make much sense to measure very accurately and a simple measurement with an iPhone or Android app is no less valuable than a measurement with an expensive professional PAR meter. There is no point in measuring very accurately when the measured intensity has very significant variations anyway depending on where we measure.
 
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