Pearl Gourami - Is this white area anything to be concerned about?

[Andrew Butler]

Unsure if this white area on top of one of my pearl gourami is anything to be concerned about? Can't quite make out if he has knocked it or it is an infection of some kind or similar. Any ideas and suggestions welcome - the links are of pitcures

https://goo.gl/photos/i3dgXEg9ftn5oE6V6
https://goo.gl/photos/6rB1wnxqKEWcPwKE6

 

[Greenfinger2]

Hi Andrew, Could be cotton mouth.Not sure Others will know more

http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/cotton_mouth/

 

[Alex J]

Definitely an infection, Difficult to say from the pictures but it may not be a fungal infection but rather bacterial, both are similar in appearance. The bacteria .Flexibacter columnaris is commonly present in aquariums and on the skin of healthy fish, only causing issue when water conditions are sub optimal , and fish become stressed, lowering their immune system, allowing the bacteria to take hold.Also can take hold if a fish suffers some kind of open wound. Of course it could be a fungal infection, Saprolegnia or Achyla. API pimafix treats both fungal and bacterial infections.

 

[Andrew Butler]

Thanks both for your input, although my water parameters may not be perfect especialy the PH which has been around 6.5 they have been pretty consistent since first fish added over a month ago and have kept water changes regular. https://goo.gl/photos/LbXwdAX3XxcnEvWNA (picture is of JBL proscan results, I know it's not the most reliable testing!) I can't think what would be causing stress apart from him keep failing to build a good bubble nest for the female he has been mating with. I do seem to have a problem with minute white worms which have started to reappear every day https://goo.gl/photos/DsTiBPvQ8HHC31Hg8 which I will post a question about

 

[alto]

You might take a look at this thread
- these sorts of lesions are not that uncommon in various gourami species, a good first step is to increase water changes - you don't mention what your schedule is (or amount of water changed) but given the wee white worms (which generally occur with overfeeding/lack of cleanup of the excess food) I'm sceptical of the zero nitrate reading on that proscan strip...
Also pay more attention to your substrate vacuuming during water changes

It's possible this began as a surface scrape which then became infected - fish rarely have one "disease", instead secondary infections almost always present

Some tank details & care information might help

 

[Andrew Butler]

I had been making a minimum of 2no 30% per week minimum but I was on holiday last week so it was a week between changes. I understand your scepticism about the nitrates but I have checked the parameters regularly and nitrates have read 0 every time except once where they were 18 mg/l and that was when I returned from holiday before doing a water change. How would you suggest treating the problem?
What would you suggest the white worms are and your view on treating them (I have reduced feeding)

I Can't find the link for suggested information to post but the tank is 60l, test results are at the above link and have been pretty consistent - Any guidance welcome

 

[alto]

strange link works for me 😕

try
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36395

 

[Andrew Butler]

strange link works for me 😕

try
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36395

I had meant on this site there is a blank form suggesting what info to provide about your aquarium when you post. I didn't know whether the above link

 

[alto]

Try googling planaria - compare images to your special friends 😉

What sort of substrate do you have in tank? how do you do your water changes? vacuum substrate?

I had meant on this site there is a blank form suggesting what info to provide about your aquarium when you post.

I've no idea 😳

 

[Andrew Butler]

Substrate is Colombo Florabase, W/C are done using a syphon gravel vac and I don't really vacuum the substrate as it sucks so much down the pipe - opinion?

I had a google about the little critters and my research pointed towards planaria being quite a generalised term and them probably being a flat worm of some kind from overfeeding - food has been cut back so I guess it might be a see how it goes and have to rethink things about vacuuming the substrate

 

[Andrew Butler]

Here's a couple of pics showing where it has got a little worse, I have been adding both melafix and pimafix the past 3 days now. Any clues?
https://goo.gl/photos/kUhEGvH3ChfYVy1T7
https://goo.gl/photos/TDPAGv5ivT3kut7w9

 

[alto]

Not to be completely annoying 😉 but why not eSHa 2000 as per the link included above - the Pearl gourami looks to have a markedly similar lesion & seems to have responded favorably to the treatment

You might also try Seachem Kanaplex (if available)
If fish is eating, try feeding medicated food (I believe Seachem provides instruction on their website, note that the combined use of Focus does increase binding of the medication to food)

melafix and pimafix

pretty much expresses my opinion of these 2 "medications" - I've yet to see any (research) evidence that these compounds affect actual fish pathogens - as opposed to some water column effects
ie the water column pathogens that were "treated" by M & P are not observed to be infectious agents in ornamental fish 🙄
There are numerous reports of fish reacting adversely (even fatalities) in response to M & P, especially when used in combination as per the manufacturer - hopefully there is finally a caution on the label 🙁

I don't really vacuum the substrate as it sucks so much down the pipe - opinion?

😳 missed this
Not sure about the Colombo, but Tropica aquarium soil can be "lifted" into the syphon tube, allowed to swirl about, then clamp off the suction to drop the "cleaned" substrate back to earth 😀
If this doesn't work with Colombo, just carefully do a surface vacuum to remove debris.
Also rinse filter media (use conditioned tap water), especially any sponge, replace any filter floss - this along with daily water changes (even just 25%) is often as effective as many aquarium medications

overfeeding

tends to lead to increased organic load in the water column, which means more bacteria etc,
As above, increased water changes 🙂
It generally takes a week or 2 of frequent water changes

 

[Andrew Butler]

Cheers for the lengthy response Alto;
I assure you I didn't just completely ignore you! - I had a look over the link among others and aside from Esha 2000 not being available at my local M&P were and recommended by them and other links with similar looking problems.
The gourami is still eating well unlike the link BUT that doesn't mean it's not to come.
I will get some Esha 2000 ordered and if there is no improvement by the time it arrives then I will look at changing treatment routes - I figure a big water change would be in order as I change over
I have been doing 30% w/c but unsure quite how much I can safely change and how often

Also rinse filter media (use conditioned tap water), especially any sponge, replace any filter floss

Am I correct in thinking when everything is healthy all of this should be rinsed in tank water and not tap water?

 

[alto]

You can safely (gently!) rinse all filter media in treated tap water or tank water, I use tap as it's more convenient & there really isn't much difference between my tap & tank (I use the Python System for water changes) .... when tap & tank are similar parameters large water changes are fine BUT you need to get the water conditioner right when doing anything over 25-30% (especially if there's any chance of chloramines in tap water, check with your water supplier to see how they "emergency" dose for elevated coliforms etc)

Don't wait for the tank to be healthy though, give the filter a good rinse to remove the waste from overfeeding; also filters just accumulate debris so monthly check is often recommended

I assure you I didn't just completely ignore you!

😀

M&P were and recommended by them and other links

yeah, marketing by the manufacturer is excellent 😉
Most shops never do any research in Ornamental Fish Diseases & rely upon suppliers for information

These sorts of lesions can arise from various triggers, mostly they clear as the fish's immune system gets going, treatments are just a bit of help, clean water is often the most significant factor.
Gourami's in general seem more susceptible to these sorts of infections, perhaps from inbreeding or stressors we don't recognize (Pearls aren't intensely bred for color lines, but still seem to have some issues) - iridoviruses have been identified in various gourami species, perhaps they are just more susceptible or ???

Monitor fish closely, if infection seems to worsen, you might do well to isolate fish to a hospital tank (to minimize exposure for tankmates) - a 40litre tank with inbuilt filter etc is worth collecting on sale/used for a quarantine/treatment tank.

If Metronidazole is available, a course of medicated food may be beneficial (more palatable than Kanaplex soaked food, & maybe more available???)

 

[Andrew Butler]

Don't wait for the tank to be healthy though, give the filter a good rinse to remove the waste from overfeeding

I have been doing this as a matter of course anyway, may just increase water changes for now

f infection seems to worsen, you might do well to isolate fish to a hospital tank

I have this in mind

Most shops never do any research in Ornamental Fish Diseases & rely upon suppliers for information

SALES = PROFIT!

 

[Lindy]

Melafix and pimafix should not be used in fish with a labyrinth organ as the oil these treatments have can coat the organ affecting it's function. Water life myxazin is a better option.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[alto]

I think Melafix & Pimafix should remain as toothpaste additives 😎

(& other topical creams 😉 )

 

[Andrew Butler]

I added the esha 200 - 1st dose last Sunday 25th and the further 2 doses Monday and Tuesday. I haven't noticed any improvement and wondering whether I should have by now / when to / what I should do next.
Any input would be appreciated again.

P.S I get the message to avoid Melafix and Pimafix in the future!

 

[sciencefiction]

There are numerous reports of fish reacting adversely (even fatalities) in response to M & P, especially when used in combination as per the manufacturer - hopefully there is finally a caution on the label 🙁

I once isolated a couple of sickly corys in a tank for treatment and to do so I put them in a tank from which I had just moved away a big bunch of happy forktail rainbows. I put a dose of melafix. I woke up the day after to find their dead bodies. I never used the stuff since. The forktail rainbows and all other corys that lived in the tank from which I took the two corys survived.

When it comes to fish treatment, 90% of the time the meds we buy don't work because the advertisement of the meds is greater than the result. In most cases they either kill or weaken the fish, kill the biomedia, or are simply useless.

The gourami is still eating well unlike the link BUT that doesn't mean it's not to come

To be honest, the fact that its eating is a very good sign. Sick fish, on death bed, don't eat. If its flexibacter columnaris, it can spread in a few days depending on the strain of bacteria. What the fish have could be something else related to the species and/or water conditions. Columnaris spreads to all fish regardless of species and if untreated , will wipe the tank out. Depending on the time frame, maybe it is not what your fish have, although it looks like it.

However, as alto suggested, I'd get some seachem kanaplex. If its columnaris it should work. You can get it from ebay. They are maybe other meds out there too that are useful but its hard to recommend anything considering its a guess game when it comes to diseases. At least I know that for an antibiotic kanaplex is quite safe to put with any fish or inverts.

I have been doing 30% w/c but unsure quite how much I can safely change and how often

50% is safe to do daily. The more often one does water changes, the bigger they can go simply because tank and tap/input water are pretty much the same in this case.
You've been already doing regular water changes. Up it up for a week or two to 50% every second day if you have the chance. It is the fish immune system you need to boost. Because that's what fights the disease. Try not to disturb the fish too much when doing water changes. Just drain, de-chlorinate, refill.

 

[Andrew Butler]

I understand I'm playing a bit of a guessing game!

I have been having a bit more of a read into things and unsure if I have overlooked something with regards to using the esha 2000 -
As I understood it you have to remove carbon from the filtration but I am now unsure if I made a big error and should have removed the ceramic bio rings? I have an internal filter with standard filter wool and half a handful of ceramic bio rings.
I'm sure there is a distinct difference between biological and chemical filtration but reading elsewhere it suggests removing bio balls?!?!
link to esha 2000 where you can see there info - http://www.eshalabs.eu/europe/products/esha-2000supregsup.html

Regardless to the above I am going to get a water change done today and have another look into the Seachem Kanaplex - I'm just very weary about buying this kind of stuff from ebay.