Stability through age or time bomb waiting to go off?

[mort]

Hi, I'm considering a strip and restart of my tank for the first time in about 8 years and was wondering what people's opinion of longevity and stability are in tanks. I see plenty of threads at the moment that seem to be having plenty of problems with maturing and I wonder if this is just a coincidence or I'm noticing it more because I'm considering the same.
I've been lucky with my tank in that I only ever see a small amount of black brush algae and the occasional cyano in the substrate at the tank. This is more surprising because it gets lots of direct sunlight, hours in the summer from a south/west facing window. I don't know whether this is because it's very heavily planted, lightly stock with emersed planting, or whether it's a result of a very mature and stable system. Any thoughts on if we can perpetually maintain a tank and prevent "old tank syndrome"? Or do you think we are always building to a tipping point before we run into problems?

I'm just thinking that over the eight years I've never been able to syphon the manado/aquasoil substrate, so it's packed with detritus that may have been utilised by the plants but I'm wondering how complete the process can be in a relatively sparse ecosystem? Is it likely to become a ticking time bomb? And more importantly could the results be replicated if I started again by essentially only changing the substrate as a variable (I'd go to a sand substrate)?
I'm happy to just fiddle with the plants a bit and leave more or less as is but a fresh start probably is overdue.

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[Oldguy]

longevity and stability are in tanks.

Never had an active substrate, always inert gravel with a under gravel filter as a large pre-filter for a canister. Vac the gravel about every two to three months but not very thoroughly because of plants. I have always assumed that the setup was good for at least 10 years plus (must be 12 years and counting).

Had the usual mishaps: heater stuck on and 'cooked' livestock and once after a period of major neglect ( I was very ill and in the middle of a sizable building project with very bad weather to contend with ) there was a nasty outbreak of cyanobacteria that I just left to run its course and it cleared without a strip down or meds.

I try and do a weekly 50% water change and keep the pre-filters/strainers clear that are on the circulation/CO2 diffusion pumps. EI the water column.

I suppose it all depends on types of plants and livestock, the more fickle the more problems. Keep things easy with a wide margin for error.

Some enthusiasts are always changing and having a new layout and are not tolerant of plants in the 'wrong place' or a little algae . Life is too short to stuff olives.

Those are my thoughts but not of much help.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I don't know whether this is because it's very heavily planted, lightly stock with emersed planting, or whether it's a result of a very mature and stable system.

Any thoughts on if we can perpetually maintain a tank and prevent "old tank syndrome"?

Same as @Oldguy really, my guess is that you can potentially run a tank eternally if you keep changing some water and maintaining the filter.

And more importantly could the results be replicated if I started again by essentially only changing the substrate as a variable (I'd go to a sand substrate)?

I've had sand tanks that I've broken down after extended time periods, and the sand has been pretty clean.

....... Some enthusiasts are always changing and having a new layout and are not tolerant of plants in the 'wrong place' or a little algae. Life is too short to stuff olives.....

Right up there with Clive's (@ceg4048) description of an ADA Superjet (or any <"other external filter">) as, fundamentally, <"a pump in a bucket">.

cheers Darrel

 

[mort]

Hi old guy, I'm not an aquascaper, I like plants and fish in combination but don't have the patience or skill to religiously maintain a true aquascape. As long as the plants grow, the fish thrive and it looks ok I'm happy.

My other two tanks have sand substrate and they do stay clean. It's not really detritus that I'm worried about as i believe it's probably processed by the mini ecosystem to a place it's no longer a problem. I don't mind a bit of algae but prefer you to have to look hard for it.
With my marine tank I don't think they really get going until they are ten so I might just ride out my current itch to fiddle and leave it until at least the autumn when I have six months for it to settle down before the summer light tests out the stability (assuming I decide to start again there). The only thing that would change my mind is if I can't resist some new cories. I'd much prefer to keep them on sand as I can see more of a risk with a potentially dirty substrate like I have now.

 

[becks]

PaulB on reef2reef had the same reef tank running for over 40years

 

[mort]

PaulB on reef2reef had the same reef tank running for over 40years

He has, I like Paul as he's a very entertaining guy but his tank is a bit like triggers broom, with many large changes throughout the years that he doesn't count as restarting.

 

[mort]

With regards to detritus, then I'm ever very naive or laid back about it. I know it's horrible to look at and we don't want puffs of clouds whenever we disturb the substrate but I also don't think it's the worst thing either. In nature it's a benefit and I know compared to nature we keep a negligible part of the ecosystem inside a sealed box but I'd wager there is still enough going on to recycle the detritus down to a relatively inert substance. Whether the tank can cope with this process will obviously depend on even more variables but in a low energy system with low input I think it can work, which is where I am at the moment.

 

[Guest]

Hi, I'm considering a strip and restart of my tank for the first time in about 8 years and was wondering what people's opinion of longevity and stability are in tanks

I think you can pretty much keep a planted tank going indefinitely with the right husbandry.

I see plenty of threads at the moment that seem to be having plenty of problems with maturing and I wonder if this is just a coincidence or I'm noticing it more because I'm considering the same.

That includes me. I've never experienced anything like it before. It's taken several months to turn my new algae infested scape around and I'm still battling BBA. I'm still struggling to figure out why.

I don't know whether this is because it's very heavily planted, lightly stock with emersed planting, or whether it's a result of a very mature and stable system

All the above, probably.

Any thoughts on if we can perpetually maintain a tank and prevent "old tank syndrome"?

Yes I think we can, especially a planted tank, with good maintenance and fertz.

Or do you think we are always building to a tipping point before we run into problems?

Entirely possible. The universe likes tipping points. Change often starts off slowly and happens gradually to a point of no return and then when you least expect it...bang, it all goes horribly wrong.
The good news is that if you pay attention you can usually avoid tipping points.

And more importantly could the results be replicated if I started again by essentially only changing the substrate as a variable (I'd go to a sand substrate)?

Yes definitely, especially if your plants have transitioned and you use a mature filter. The best thing to do would be to plan your new tank and set it up asap after tearing down the old one.

 

[Guest]

With regards to detritus, then I'm ever very naive or laid back about it. I know it's horrible to look at and we don't want puffs of clouds whenever we disturb the substrate but I also don't think it's the worst thing either. In nature it's a benefit and I know compared to nature we keep a negligible part of the ecosystem inside a sealed box but I'd wager there is still enough going on to recycle the detritus down to a relatively inert substance. Whether the tank can cope with this process will obviously depend on even more variables but in a low energy system with low input I think it can work, which is where I am at the moment.

Whenever I've let a tank go wild, or detritus builds up, the system starts to crash. I don't think I've ever really had enough plant mass or volume to be able to handle the detritus. The puffs I have are a good example, they're messy fish and the water just has to be changed every week, else slowly I see the tank drop in condition. Rotting snails, and lots of feaces.

I've kinda got a theory that to get the tank to last, you need high oxygen, lots of plants and a good high cec substrate. For me, that's basically a trickle filter, a lot of emersed growth with inert sand/gravel but some high CEC substrate too in amongst it. I just don't have the space right now to get that going, but I will soon. I think oxygen saturation should be as close to maximum as it can be too. Depth should not be greater than width or length.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I know it's horrible to look at and we don't want puffs of clouds whenever we disturb the substrate but I also don't think it's the worst thing either. In nature it's a benefit and I know compared to nature we keep a negligible part of the ecosystem inside a sealed box but I'd wager there is still enough going on to recycle the detritus down to a relatively inert substance.

The late Bob Marklew, Plec breeder extraordinaire <"had mulmy tanks">, but managed to <"breed fish that other experienced aquarists"> couldn't even keep alive. He was an engineer by profession and <"incredibly meticulous"> in documenting what worked, and what didn't.

cheers Darrel

 

[Guest]

Hi all,

The late Bob Marklew, Plec breeder extraordinaire <"had mulmy tanks">, but managed to <"breed fish that other experienced aquarists"> couldn't even keep alive. He was an engineer by profession and <"incredibly meticulous"> in documenting what worked, and what didn't.

cheers Darrel

I spent a fair chunk of time yesterday seeing if I could claw some of his post back, I haven't exhausted every option but it looks unlikley, sadly. There are captures of Plecofanatics, but remnants and not deep. I'll try again at some point, seems like a real loss for the hobby.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

There are captures of Plecofanatics, but remnants and not deep.

Thanks for trying, I thought that was probably going to be the answer.

Bob gave me a juvenile Ancistrus just <"before he died">. I'd just popped into to see him on the way home from work (he had had knee surgery) and about two hours later I left with all sorts of good stuff. The Bristlenose grew into a really nice black male fish with a scatter of contrasting white dots. He'd sold the original pair and the fry, but had found this one still in the tank.

He thought it was <"L100">, but by that time he had died and PF had folded, so I never found out who had the other fish, or why he thought it was L100. There are a lot of very similar white dotted, black Ancistrus and I never managed to find any-one else with a female who I could give it to (or buy a female from). I kept it for a couple of years but eventually managed to re-home it with some-one who could look after it.

We knew the forum was going to end (it is a long story), which was why the administrators started "Plecoplanet" and it allowed me to retrieve <"Aeration and dissolved oxygen....."> before it went, but the forum posts were lost.

cheers Darrel