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The CHI(LL)

kadoxu

kadoxu

Member
Joined
24 May 2016
Messages
1,290
Location
Portugal
Hi guys,

I'm back after the 1st failed attempt... I'm trying to set up a journal about my failed attempt(s). I didn't know where to create this thread, so admins, feel free to move this somewhere else!

Previously in my Planted Nano Tank
Episode 1
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/plant-beginner-issues.41514/
  • It's my first ever aquarium.
  • I didn't have much space so I went for a 19L Fluval Chi tank.
  • I want to be able to keep some plants alive before adding some cherry shrimp and zebra nerite snails
  • Poor research on plants lead to a complete failure
Episode 2
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/planted-aquarium-in-rented-property.42250/page-2#post-454671
  • Landlord told me I couldn't have an aquarium... the contract doesn't say I can't have one if it doesn't have animals, so I'm going for it until I have to move... or he changes his mind.

And now - Episode 3

So, I now have a bit more information about plants... I read a lot of forum threads and a couple of books (including Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium).


My plant list (I want to narrow it down to 3 or 4, but I'm also taking suggestions):
  • Moss Balls
  • Lindernia Rotundifolia ?
  • Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green' ?
  • Japanese Cress (Cardamine lyrata) ?
  • Mini Java Fern (Microsorum Pteropus Petit)
  • Eleocharis Acicularis ?
  • Eleocharis Parvula ?
  • Eleocharis Sp. Mini ?
  • Staurogyne repens ?
I'm going to try and keep the same idea I had for the first attempt (check the link above), but with different soil (no more white pebbles all over) and to start using an EI regime from start as well as adding liquid CO2. I also updated the lights with some DIY LED lights (which I'm not too confident about).
If it goes wrong (again), I'll have to try with a different filter and lighting...

The plan here is to keep it simplistic and have a carpet plant covering the ground completely, Moss Balls will be randomly positioned and a couple of bigger plants (Small Java Fern in driftwood is a must) behind a Taiwan Goddess head statue (very zen to keep the mrs. happy!).

I'd also like to have floating plants, but the filter sends it all underwater with the water flow and then sucks it up (I had a duckweed nightmare)...

I'll update this thread with pics and plans so you guys can help me through it! 🙂
 
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STEP 1 - Soil & Decoration

Tank: Fluval Chi 2 (19L)
Soil: 2-4cm of Tetra Complete Substrate covered with 1-2cm of Tetra Active Substrate.

IMG_20160817_135631.jpg



STEP 2 - Plant planning
plants.jpg
After a bit of research, I made this spreadsheet to help me choose between the options I had... (I'm accepting revisions on this... hardness columns probably have wrong data... sometimes data available in the web is a bit controversial)

Last attempt initial water tests:
  • PH - less than 7.5 (didn't have a high end PH test by then)
  • GH - 16
  • KH - 12
  • NH3 - 0.2
  • NO2 - 0
  • NO3 - 10
I'm going for a 25-26ºC temp, Low Tech (I'll use liquid CO2), and Low to Medium light tank (hopefully... lol).

Legend:
1 - Mini Java Fern
2 - Unknown... (choosing between Lindernia Rotundifolia, Cryptocoryne wendtii Green, or Cardamine lyrata)
3 - Unknown... (choosing between one of the Eleocharis')
4 - Staurogyne repens

Option 1:
1.jpg

Option 2:
2.jpg

Option 3:
3.jpg


I'm accepting suggestions for other plants I could use. Remember it's a small tank with 25.4 x 25.4 x 36.5 cm (10 x 10 x 14.4 in) and the filter is partially submerged on top of it. http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/10505-chi/#.V7SBrun2aHs

Questions:
  • I have a Fluval E 50W heater... it's a bit on the huge size. During winter I need it to be able to cope with indoor temps as low as 10-15º... Would a smaller heater do the job?
  • I'm letting just a bit of water so the ground settles for at least a few days until I get at least some plants. Should I be doing this with a full tank instead before adding the plants?
  • Is there a floating plant that would be able to cope with the filter's downwards water flow? (I tried Duckweed... it was a disaster!)

Thank you
 
Updates

So, I'll have to change the plants layout a bit... instead of reducing the plant list I added a few more plants... lol

Here are a few things I have on the way:
  • Copper Test kit
  • Seneye Reef
  • Dennerle Nano ThermoCompact 50W heater
  • Plants:
    • (floater) Water Letuce (from our friend @creg)
    • (foreground) Eleocharis parvula and sp. Mini (I'm gonna mix them and see which one does better)
    • (foreground/middleground) Staurogyne repens
    • (middleground) Mini Java Fern
    • (background) Japanese Cress
    • (background) Ludwigia palustris
    • (background) Lindernia rotundifolia
 
Reminds me of Oliver Knott fantasy scapes! Nice.
 
Plants were sent today and arrive tomorrow... so I wanted to test everything before I really need it.

Here is the final result (Sorry about the thermometers, but I'm testing a new heater)
IMG_20160825_210017.jpg

IMG_20160825_210033.jpg

I had the soil soaking for a week. Today I filled the tank up and emptied it again in order to 'simulate' an 80% water change.
I added a bit of liquid carbon and micro-nutrients to the water.

First round of water chemistry tests:
  • PH - 8
  • KH - 6
  • GH - 14
  • NO2 - 0
  • NO3 - 5
  • NH3 - 0.3
  • Cu - <0.25

Tomorrow when the plants arrive I'll empty most of it again and start the EI regime for real!
I'll start with 4-5 hours of light for the first week and hopefully I'll get the Seneye to test my DIY LED lights.
 
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Don't worry about things too much. I think you've done well.. I would not touch the ph at all... Filter is probably not good enough to have any fish in there though,

For your next tank, you should use aqua soil. It will simply things a little.

Don't dose ei ranges for this tank. You can start with 1/4 EI and take it from there.
 
rebel said:
Don't worry about things too much. I think you've done well.. I would not touch the ph at all... Filter is probably not good enough to have any fish in there though,

For your next tank, you should use aqua soil. It will simply things a little.

Don't dose ei ranges for this tank. You can start with 1/4 EI and take it from there.
Click to expand...

I've done a quick test on the filter flow rate.
I put a tube on the exit making all the water flow to a container for about 31 seconds (the container wasn't too big) and measured the water volume (0.7L). All the math done the filter flow rate is at least 80 litres per hour (I say at least, because the flow could have been limited by the tube). Being it a 19L tank it cycles all the water at least 4 times an hour... Would it be enough to have some shrimp?

I've started Liquid Carbon and EI regime following the recommended dose after a big water change (around 70%) every day. Micro and Macro on alternate days. Should I dose just a 1/4 of the recomended dose even while doing at least 50% water changes a day?

Thanks
 
Just a smal note here; NH3 excists with a PH of 7 or below. Above 7 it is NH4 wich is more toxic to fish.
That's just some chemistry wich i know the smallest bit about. What i do know is that it is important to cycle lots of water in the beginning. Your advantage could also be your disadvantage. With your tank size you can easily change 80% water but mostly smaller tanks are harder to stabilize.

About lighting; Bright light wil let your plants grow faster and they will need more ferts and CO2. With you using middle bright lights and plants that wil accept it your demand is lower. However in startup with alot of changing water and bacteria build up to do. So you also change ferts with it. I would not risk it to foresee in the demand of your plant so keep dosing enough ferts ect.

Good luck!
 
Day 7 update

Today is day 7. So far so good, everything going as expected. I also added just a few Dwarf Water Lettuce to the tank, just to have a few floating plants as a algae prevention measure.

The floating water lettuce is growing like crazy and I can already see some growth on most of the other plants as well.

Some of the Lindernia rotundifolia leaves are melting (I think)... I'm hoping it's due to the change to immersed environment. As the plant needs to adapt to be completely underwater.
IMG_20160831_090234.jpg


I didn't have time this morning for more than this quick pic
IMG_20160831_090312.jpg

Sorry about the Seneye's position, but the suction cup doesn't hold it and it kept falling over the plants...

And the Seneye's data for the last 3 days
seneyeData.png
 
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Manisha said:
Growth is looking good & your right patience is the key with plants adapting to submersed conditions - your seneye's a fancy piece of kit! 🙂
Click to expand...
Thank you! The extra lights on the cover lid were a DYI project and I really wanted to know how strong they really were, that was the main reason to buy the Seneye.
 
DAY 13 Update

I am now giving 1 more hour of light per day (now on for 6h)

Yesterday I trimmed a just bit of the Ludwigia palustris. I wanted to do this from day 1, but I thought it would be better to let it settle in the tank for a bit first, as it would have better access to CO2 while reaching the water surface with a few leaves.
The Mini Java Fern also got a couple of leaves trimmed and I'm looking to start trimming it slowly in order to get smaller leaves.

Dwarf Water Lettuce continues to grow fast as hell... almost like a bodybuilder on steroids... I added 4 or 5 in the first week, and now I'm starting to remove a few.

Japanese water cress also seems to be growing nicely, I'll probably end up removing the bigger pebble on the back an fill the space some more water cress and the Java Fern... well, it's a Java Fern.

Free Ammonia Levels are a bit high, since the PH is usually around 8 and a bit above, but a great amount gets absorbed while the lights are on (thank you water lettuce!).

Now to the problems... A few days ago I had the first victim of stem rot... Lindernia Rotundifolia is giving me an headache again, but this time, I'll just leave it floating in the water to see if it gets some roots going. Staurogyne repens seems to be following on the same path.

Both Eleocharis seem to be slowly dying, one curious thing is that the ones I was able to plant deeper in the substrate seem to be staying bit greener than the rest. Let's wait and see how it goes...

I also had a bit of a problem with the Seneye... it ended up being a software bug they were already aware of, so they made me a part of the Beta testing for the next software version.

I'll add a new pic when I have the chance...
 
DAY 15

Not much happened since last Tuesday.

I'm now trying to get some cheap & used CO2 equipment to replace Liquid Carbon and see if the root rot stops.
Also ordered some new lights hopping they do a better job with Eleocharis.

Here are some pics from this morning
IMG_20160908_085607.jpg

IMG_20160908_085623.jpg
 
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