What light for a 120x36x24 (l,w,h inches) tank ?

[anewbie]

I'd like some feedback on what light and configuration (including height) for a rather large tank that is 120x36x24. On my current tanks I have played with fluval 3.0, wrgb 2 and onf flat+ (warm version). I'm leaning torwards the wrgb 2 though it is not clear how high i would hang it nor how many i would use of what size (the 48 inch has more penetration good for a 24 inch tank but the 36 inch unit might be a better fit.
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I also know there are other lights including the vivid 2, kessel, twinstar 3 and various black boxes. I'd like enough penetration that plants at the bottom can grow and i'd probably add a bit more red plants. Attached are pictures of my 120 which had 2 fluval 3.0 and now has 1 fluval 3.0 and the wrgb2 (the wrgb 2 is only about 3 weeks old) and the 40b which has the onf flat+. Of course these lights are all programmable and the settings one picks has an impact on the look (for the wrgb2 i started with the fish profile and raised the green so it was more even the fluval is on plant profile). The 40B is my first real attempt at red plants which are more demanding. The tank mentioned above will have the live stock in my current 120 plus some addition. The landscape will be similar ot the 120 but less crowded in front -being a larger deeper tank i can spread things out a bit and leave the middle more open. The substrate will be a bit finer than the eco-complete - on par with the substrate in the 40B but black and inert. I spent the last 18 months testing substrates and lights but wanted some additional feedback since i can't try everything. One concern I have with the wrgb2 is the short warranty (very short compared the 3 years fluval gives you) but of course it is much brighter than the fluval which had some issue reaching the bottom of the tank.

120:



40b:

 

[oreo57]

12 ai prime freshwaters..
$2400us plus
Maybe 10
2 rows of five
No matter what you pick short of giant metal halides you will need 2 rows of lights or sideways.
There are obscure leds that will work like Orphek Amazonias (their website us down for some reason).

 

[anewbie]

12 ai prime freshwaters..
$2400us plus
Maybe 10
2 rows of five
No matter what you pick short of giant metal halides you will need 2 rows of lights or sideways.
There are obscure leds that will work like Orphek Amazonias (their website us down for some reason).

Is there a particular reason you favor the ai prime over the wrgb2 or onf flat ? Also what height would they require to be to give optimal coverage (height from the frame of the tank) ?

 

[oreo57]

Is there a particular reason you favor the ai prime over the wrgb2 or onf flat ? Also what height would they require to be to give optimal coverage (height from the frame of the tank) ?

Well if you are referring to the ONF "2 tone" series my "personal" opinion is their choices are really poor from an overall functionality pov.

"My" preferred range would be 3000-9000K and I've never built a light that wasn't capable of it or at least close.
The "warm" one would be fine but I'd bet that most would find even the 6500k a bit err yellow. Besides then you throw a whole channel out (3000k channel)
Just the opposite for the cool one.
But you are already familiar w/ the warm look sooo my "opinion" is irrelevant.
Looks like you got one channel full and the other maybe half (globally dimmed?)
Let me know..eyeballs are terrible spectrophotometers.



NOW as to plants see no issues with it and it fits a niche just fine.

Chihiros, how do you hang them or mount them over such a large tank (actually asking)?
90cm ones mounted on the tank front to back?

Last plus/minus depending on how you look at it the AI's have a more concentrated beam angle so a bit better penetration without relying on brute force.
The negative of that is more shading (positive of that is more 3d look) unless hanging higher.

All these choices have geometry issues to work out.

AI Prime starts at w/ a full RGB spectrum so to speak.
I'll get back to you on this..






You won't go wrong w/ any and some things are your personal needs/wants.......... not mine.

 

[oreo57]

OK.. Take 2.. Really need a better spectrum plot.
New assumptions R. Blue is 445 Deep red is 655. In hindsight I should have left it 660nm..
This is really a rough assumption but spectrum interpolation matches posted spectrum fairly close.
I'll post a height uncorrected chart to show how the 2 curves fit..
If you fit the peaks it's almost exact.
Est 4000l per puck 90 degrees.
At D50 CRI is 86
most work w/ the least satisfying estimate in a long time..

Sorry probably more for me.. It's been bugging me for years ..

Data from curve match:
* MIXING LIST----------------------------------------
myData aiprimeguess2.txt [90°] x1----------------------------------------
* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 4,000 lm
Radiant flux : 11,952 mW
PPF : 55.3 umol/s
TCP : 4460 K
CRI : 81
λp : 572 nm
Color : #FFDA8A
----------------------------------------
* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 42.3 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 14,147 lx
PPFD : 195 umol/m²/s

 

[anewbie]

Well if you are referring to the ONF "2 tone" series my "personal" opinion is their choices are really poor from an overall functionality pov.
View attachment 166037
"My" preferred range would be 3000-9000K and I've never built a light that wasn't capable of it or at least close.
The "warm" one would be fine but I'd bet that most would find even the 6500k a bit err yellow. Besides then you throw a whole channel out (3000k channel)
Just the opposite for the cool one.
But you are already familiar w/ the warm look sooo my "opinion" is irrelevant.
Looks like you got one channel full and the other maybe half (globally dimmed?)
Let me know..eyeballs are terrible spectrophotometers.



NOW as to plants see no issues with it and it fits a niche just fine.

Chihiros, how do you hang them or mount them over such a large tank (actually asking)?
90cm ones mounted on the tank front to back?

Last plus/minus depending on how you look at it the AI's have a more concentrated beam angle so a bit better penetration without relying on brute force.
The negative of that is more shading (positive of that is more 3d look) unless hanging higher.

All these choices have geometry issues to work out.

AI Prime starts at w/ a full RGB spectrum so to speak.
I'll get back to you on this..






You won't go wrong w/ any and some things are your personal needs/wants.......... not mine.

I'm not sure what you mean by one channel out - the onf flat control is not very good. All you can set is light temp from (I think) 3000 to 6500K and intensity - you cannot set individual led colours like fluval and wrgb2. I would have to check my setting to see what temp/intensity i have - i know it is not full since the 40B is not very deep (esp after substrate) and the temp is a bit below 6500K. Of the lights I've tested i'm leaning torwards the wrgb2 - there is a hanging kit for it and holes in the light where you can thread it. Also the vivid2 is the wrgb2 but more intense - but it also has a fan and runs louder.
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I'm not saying the wrgb2 is the right choice that is why i posted the question - there are several lights i have not tested including the ai prime, twinstar, various kessels and a few others. I was hoping for insight from people who have played with some of the other lights and perhaps crossed compared them to ones i have tested. The ai prime may very well be the optimal choice (though the nature of their warranty makes me suspect the quality of them - they will warranty the light for 2 years but the power supply only 1 year). I'm looking for three things in the light - one that will do well on a hi-tech tank - make the tank look nice and has decent longevity which factors into total cost. You can't see it in the picture because of the angle but i have the wrgb 48 inch (120cm) on the 120 which fits quite nicely. The vivid2 is hang only. For this large tank i will be hanging the lights which is one of the reason i asked for height. One complaint about the wrgb2 is that the spectrum is not very uniform - it has 3 led and those are the colours - your graph suggest the ai prime has a better spectrum coverage than the wrgb2. Price wise the wrgb2 would be around $1600 vs $2400 for the prime and socket wattage similar. Of course with 12 ai prime vs 6 wrgb2 units i would presume more failures.
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Having said all of this there is one person who has reviewed the vivid2 vs ai prime and they come away with a preference for the colours from the vivd2 - but this is of course very subjective.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

for a rather large tank that is 120x36x24.

I'd definitely use LED floodlights, anything else is going to prove really expensive. I'll add in @Filip Krupa.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,

I'd definitely use LED floodlights, anything else is going to prove really expensive. I'll add in @Filip Krupa.

cheers Darrel

Are you talking about these: Amazon product ASIN B072BHD8YY -- I tried one of these for about 6 months on a 5 gallon pail. Green plants grow great but not sure they are that appealing with regards to the fish or red plants. Maybe Filip will have further comments given that my testing was limited.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Yes, that sort of thing. Because of the size of the tank I was looking more at <"Hi Bay" lighting for warehouses etc>.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,
Yes, that sort of thing. Because of the size of the tank I was looking more at <"Hi Bay" lighting for warehouses etc>.

cheers Darrel

Those are 5000K - have you tested the impact these have on plants ?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

have you tested the impact these have on plants ?

Yes, 5000K is fine. It is "Cool White". I actually quite like it as a colour temperature, it is a little bit warmer than day-light (~6500K)

I'll add in @oreo57 and he can give you his opinion.

cheers Darrel

 

[Filip Krupa]

I've been running 9 of those 50W floodlights (cool white).
They can grow plants just fine. My ludwigia glandulosa turns almost purple when it gets closer to the source.

Still wish I went with warmer white, I've gone off the clinical look of the cool whites!

 

[anewbie]

The one I linked was 50 watt @ 6500K which is a tad warmer but they also make them in 100 watt unit and 150 watt unit. I guess i have two questions - which wattage to give good par in a 24 inch tank (21 after substrate) and how many would i need. I know that 5000K is too cool for my taste. @Filip Krupa you said you had 9 but not the dimension of your tank.
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From your signature I'm guessing your tank is 67x67x30 which is deeper than my tank so your suggest 50 watt is plenty strong for depth. For coverage your square area is 4489 vs 4320 so marginally larger so 9 should give me plenty of coverage. so 9 * 20 or around $180.
--
Of course it could be that the cool whites grow the red plants better because they have more blue ?

 

[oreo57]

I'm not sure what you mean by one channel out - the onf flat control is not very good. All you can set is light temp from (I think) 3000 to 6500K and intensity -


-
Having said all of this there is one person who has reviewed the vivid2 vs ai prime and they come away with a preference for the colours from the vivd2 - but this is of course very subjective.

This is what I meant and it is important.
Most lights of this type (mostly residential) have 2 channels of leds
1) 6500k-ish
2) 3000k-ish
So to get 6500 k 1/2 of your keds are off.
To get 3000k the other 1/2 is off
Roughly to use all the diodes your k temp is
6500+3000/2= 4750k.
Not quite that simple but good enough for discussion.

Any color or color temp to the left/right of 4750k requires a compromise.
If you really like the pure 6500k your watt rating is roughly 1/2 of full.

 

[oreo57]

Btw. Contacted Aquaillumination (AI prime) to get a better spectrum plot.
No luck and frankly a bit rude of a response.
Not happy

FOLLOWUP: Got a followup email, will se how that goes.

 

[anewbie]

This is what I meant and it is important.
Most lights of this type (mostly residential) have 2 channels of leds
1) 6500k-ish
2) 3000k-ish
So to get 6500 k 1/2 of your keds are off.
To get 3000k the other 1/2 is off
Roughly to use all the diodes your k temp is
6500+3000/2= 4750k.
Not quite that simple but good enough for discussion.

Any color or color temp to the left/right of 4750k requires a compromise.
If you really like the pure 6500k your watt rating is roughly 1/2 of full.

What you said make sense I think (assuming the lights are additive but it is based off the assumption of the LEDS used in the onf flat and I don't know that this assumption is correct. I do know with the fluval and wrgb they have 5 and 3 colours of led and you can select them independently. For the ONF flat i would presume they have more than 2 channels of led they just don't let you set them independently but rather they compute the setting based on target temp.

 

[oreo57]

What you said make sense I think (assuming the lights are additive but it is based off the assumption of the LEDS used in the onf flat and I don't know that this assumption is correct. I do know with the fluval and wrgb they have 5 and 3 colours of led and you can select them independently. For the ONF flat i would presume they have more than 2 channels of led they just don't let you set them independently but rather they compute the setting based on target temp.

Yep you are right. Easy enough to tell with a pic of the diodes.. cool white will look chromium yellow 3000k will look orangy yellow. If an even number of each.. pretty much proof.
The cool one may have more than 2 diode types but ????
Highest k channel maybe a mix of white/blue to make 20500K 😱
BTW blue diodes look clear.
The premise is still the same though.
EVEN IF they use rgb diodes you still need to dim one or 2 colors to make colors
Their marketing is confusing to say the least.