30cm cube tank

[chickennublet]

I would never setup a tank like that with stems front to back.....but maybe I should because that would look lovely in my living room. The colours go so well together in there, and the varying heights at the front does something really nice to break upt the pallet. From the front I guess is like looking at a full aquare painting

Also loving the industrial look there with that luminaire / stand and the steel pipes. Almost like a gallery setup.

Thank you! I love how the tank looks at the moment but I would not recommend it lmao the maintenance is really annoying.

I don't actually like the light stand but the light itself is good. I'm partial to steel pipes though. Never used glass, I'll probably break them lmao.

Very nice!

Thank you!

 

[GreenNeedle]

Thank you! I love how the tank looks at the moment but I would not recommend it lmao the maintenance is really annoying.

I don't actually like the light stand but the light itself is good. I'm partial to steel pipes though. Never used glass, I'll probably break them lmao.



Thank you!

I like the light stand but I moved into an industrial kind look a couple of years ago. I think the black (is it?) and straight lines add to the overall tank aesthetic here From this picture I could see it as in the ADA gallery or a feature in a magazine trying to tempt people into the hobby.....but yes I agree a lot of maintenance to get a full stem tank to look nice all the time.

 

[chickennublet]

I like the light stand but I moved into an industrial kind look a couple of years ago. I think the black (is it?) and straight lines add to the overall tank aesthetic here From this picture I could see it as in the ADA gallery or a feature in a magazine trying to tempt people into the hobby.....but yes I agree a lot of maintenance to get a full stem tank to look nice all the time.

Yeah it's black!

I didn't like it originally because of how... obtrusive it looks. I was using an ONF Flat Nano+ before. The plants are growing way better under this light though! Very pleased with it.

 

[chickennublet]

Currently in the office. Effin' exhausted. It has been a rather challenging two weeks at work.

Here's a picture of a Bacopa salzmannii growing above the water which I took last night:

 

[chickennublet]

Back home after a very long day. The plants have exploded. Needs a haircut very badly. I'll be going to Tokyo in about 12 days so I'll probably do a big trimming next weekend.

 

[chickennublet]

Wanted to trim the plants this weekend just before I go on holiday but I don't think I can delay trimming any further. Took a picture of my tulunadensis from the top down.

 

[chickennublet]

Sharing a few more older photos of this tank.

My first attempt at a nature style aquarium. I was trying to go low tech at the time but the plants were just sad...

I eventually started using CO2. Plants perked up after a while but did not grow very well. Still under the impression at the time that aquatic plants needed a lot of fertiliser to grow so I was dosing quite heavily at the time. Had a lot of stunting on the stem plants.

Trident fern grew to quite an impressive size but the Rotala in the back looked sad. Was growing Rotala macrandra green but all of it stunted after a while.

Eventually the trident fern started to melt probably due to a lack of maintenance on my part. I did not realise how dense it had grown. Really should have been more on top of pruning! I tore down the tank eventually. Don't remember how long this scape lasted but I don't think it was very long.

 

[SirBuce]

Nice attempt I would say. It is actually so good to see some attempts/trials that worked out or not. What do you think that could be done on the stunted growth of the stem plants in that setup? And ya did you change some ways of working on the stem plants in the latest tank?

I'm going to drop a few pics of the NA style later I started 2 days ago ha.

 

[chickennublet]

Nice attempt I would say. It is actually so good to see some attempts/trials that worked out or not. What do you think that could be done on the stunted growth of the stem plants in that setup? And ya did you change some ways of working on the stem plants in the latest tank?

I'm going to drop a few pics of the NA style later I started 2 days ago ha.

Probably less liquid fertiliser would have helped a bit. I'm using more CO2 and less liquid fertiliser in my current set up and facing considerably less stunting. I do wish my Rotala blood reds would grow bigger though, their stems are kinda skinny.

I say less water column fertiliser because I think plants from the family lythraceae are more prone to stunting from excessive water column ferts than not. Before I settled on this final layout I tried my hand at a fully planted tank and dosed way more fertiliser than I am currently and my Rotala blood reds did not like it one bit. A lot of stunting when they were supposed to be easygoing. I was quite puzzled as to why they would not grow well despite a rich substrate, water column and CO2.

That's not to say that these plants cannot grow well in tanks which get more water column dosing than mine. I think it's more about the combination of plants. Over time I realised that my current layout does not actually have many super fast growing stems. The fastest growing ones are the Rotala blood red, R. tulunadensis and Limnophila aromatica. The other stems actually grow rather slowly. So a very lean dosing approach works well for me. My lights are also not very bright so that might be another thing to consider.

 

[SirBuce]

Probably less liquid fertiliser would have helped a bit. I'm using more CO2 and less liquid fertiliser in my current set up and facing considerably less stunting. I do wish my Rotala blood reds would grow bigger though, their stems are kinda skinny.

I say less water column fertiliser because I think plants from the family lythraceae are more prone to stunting from excessive water column ferts than not. Before I settled on this final layout I tried my hand at a fully planted tank and dosed way more fertiliser than I am currently and my Rotala blood reds did not like it one bit. A lot of stunting when they were supposed to be easygoing. I was quite puzzled as to why they would not grow well despite a rich substrate, water column and CO2.

That's not to say that these plants cannot grow well in tanks which get more water column dosing than mine. I think it's more about the combination of plants. Over time I realised that my current layout does not actually have many super fast growing stems. The fastest growing ones are the Rotala blood red, R. tulunadensis and Limnophila aromatica. The other stems actually grow rather slowly. So a very lean dosing approach works well for me. My lights are also not very bright so that might be another thing to consider.

Interesting to know what you said there! I might adjust my fert schedule as my Wallichii is not doing that well vs Hra, and back then Wallichii was doing better than Hra when I was dosing 'too' lean lol.

The liquid fert dosing is a never ending topic (we have a long long thread somewhere on that topic ahaha, always amusing when I come across it). On one hand EI dosing (seems) to be able resolve all/most issues (with the right co2 and light of course), on the other hand we have ADA selling those lead ferts (their contents in bottle and pricing are shocking to me) but of course their tanks look perfect.

I just want to know what's in the water from Japan aha (apparently they have near RO quality tap water?). You could ask ADA when you are visiting ahaha - you are going to see some of their galleries?🤩

Nowadays I'm actually more a fan of Lugwigia sp. now, Rotalas as you experienced they can have different preferences among themselves, i.e. finicky plants.

 

[seedoubleyou]

apparently they have near RO quality tap water?)

I don’t think that would be healthy ?
@dw1305

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I don’t think that would be healthy ?

I wouldn't particularly want to drink it. I'm definitely a hard, alkaline water fan <"for drinking">.

I just want to know what's in the water from Japan aha (apparently they have near RO quality tap water?)

In terms of use in the tank, it would make thinks easier, because of the <"blank slate"> aspect and not having issues with high alkalinity effecting pH and <"nutrient uptake">.

Another factor might be that those trace elements we usually ignore because they are "always present" might not be present. We have an example of that in @Hufsa's <"manganese (Mn) deficiency symptoms">.

This means that you would need to add <"all fourteen"> essential mineral nutrients for plant growth.

cheers Darrel

 

[chickennublet]

Interesting to know what you said there! I might adjust my fert schedule as my Wallichii is not doing that well vs Hra, and back then Wallichii was doing better than Hra when I was dosing 'too' lean lol.

The liquid fert dosing is a never ending topic (we have a long long thread somewhere on that topic ahaha, always amusing when I come across it). On one hand EI dosing (seems) to be able resolve all/most issues (with the right co2 and light of course), on the other hand we have ADA selling those lead ferts (their contents in bottle and pricing are shocking to me) but of course their tanks look perfect.

I just want to know what's in the water from Japan aha (apparently they have near RO quality tap water?). You could ask ADA when you are visiting ahaha - you are going to see some of their galleries?🤩

Nowadays I'm actually more a fan of Lugwigia sp. now, Rotalas as you experienced they can have different preferences among themselves, i.e. finicky plants.

Just be sure not to make too many adjustments in a short time. Observe how your plants grow for a while to every adjustment you make. Improvements, if any, will show up in new growth. Old leaves will not get better. There are also many different reasons why certain plants might not be doing well and nutrition is just one of them so don't get too hung up on adjusting your fertilisation.

Singapore does have very soft water. I don't remember the values exactly but I have tested my tap water before with liquid GH and KH kits and the solution changed colour within a few drops. My plants might be happier if I added some calcium to my water but I'm not keeping anything that particularly needs higher calcium and my tap water is not completely devoid of minerals. I also can't be arsed to remineralise every water change so I've decided not to bother with it. If I were keeping Cryptocoryne 'flamingo' or Rotala ramosior or Pogostemon helferi I probably would.

Definitely gonna check out some of the fish stores when I'm in Tokyo!

I don’t think that would be healthy ?
@dw1305

You're right I don't think it's healthy. People and plants both need calcium and magnesium. I guess if you had a diet with sufficient calcium and magnesium sources then drinking very soft water long term would be fine?

 

[chickennublet]

Hi all,

I wouldn't particularly want to drink it. I'm definitely a hard, alkaline water fan <"for drinking">.

In terms of use in the tank, it would make thinks easier, because of the <"blank slate"> aspect and not having issues with high alkalinity effecting pH and <"nutrient uptake">.

Another issue might be that those trace elements we usually ignore because they are "always present" might not be present. We have an example of that in @Hufsa 's <"manganese (Mn) deficiency symptoms">.

This means that you would need to add <"all fourteen"> essential mineral nutrients for plant growth.

cheers Darrel

I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to drink hard water. I drank out of the tap when I stayed in Exeter for a couple of years but didn't notice very much of a difference. I wasn't interested in aquariums or water chemistry at the time so didn't think that much about it. I just briefly looked it up and it seems that the tap water in Exeter is soft to moderately soft. Maybe I'll pay a bit more attention to how the water i'm drinking tastes from now on.

How does high alkalinity (we're talking KH yes?) affect pH? I always thought higher KH means more stable pH. Is it because water with high alkalinity usually has higher pH? Interestingly our tap water apparently has an average pH of 8.2 but barely any carbonates in it (I think!)

I think excessive carbonates messes with a plant's ability to regulate nutrient intake. Quite fortunate to have soft water right out the tap and not have to set up RO filters and stuff like that.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I guess if you had a diet with sufficient calcium and magnesium sources then drinking very soft water long term would be fine?

There maybe health benefits of drinking hard water <"Relationship between Regional Distribution of Centenarians and Drinking Water Hardness in the Amami Islands, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan">, but I'm guessing that diet is always more important.

My main issue is actually one of taste and mouth feel. I don't like the mouth feel of very soft water, where it feels like your tongue (and your teeth) are starting to dissolve.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

How does high alkalinity (we're talking KH yes?) affect pH? I always thought higher KH means more stable pH. Is it because water with high alkalinity usually has higher pH?

We have an article <"Some handy facts about water">, but basically yes, the <"carbonate buffer system"> regulates pH to the equilibrium pH value of ~pH8.

You always have the same amount of <"T(D)IC (Total (Dissolved) Inorganic Carbon)"> but its form differs as pH changes. Because this is an equilibrium the converse is also true and the form of the DIC changes the pH. When you lower the pH and dKH with an acid you've converted some of that carbonate (CO3) buffer to CO2 - <"Converting alkalinity to CO2">.

That pH value is dependent on the amount of atmospheric CO2 <"Global Monitoring Laboratory - Carbon Cycle Greenhouse Gases"> and while it is <"not going well"> for the planet, we are getting some extra "free" CO2 in our tanks.

When you inject CO2 you change the equilibrium pH value, by mimicking an atmosphere richer in CO2. This is also how a <"drop checker works">.

Interestingly our tap water apparently has an average pH of 8.2 but barely any carbonates in it (I think!)

I'd guess that is <"sodium hydroxide (NaOH) addition">. There is a description in <"Struggling with a few plants">.

cheers Darrel

 

[SirBuce]

Just be sure not to make too many adjustments in a short time. Observe how your plants grow for a while to every adjustment you make. Improvements, if any, will show up in new growth. Old leaves will not get better. There are also many different reasons why certain plants might not be doing well and nutrition is just one of them so don't get too hung up on adjusting your fertilisation.

Singapore does have very soft water. I don't remember the values exactly but I have tested my tap water before with liquid GH and KH kits and the solution changed colour within a few drops. My plants might be happier if I added some calcium to my water but I'm not keeping anything that particularly needs higher calcium and my tap water is not completely devoid of minerals. I also can't be arsed to remineralise every water change so I've decided not to bother with it. If I were keeping Cryptocoryne 'flamingo' or Rotala ramosior or Pogostemon helferi I probably would.

Definitely gonna check out some of the fish stores when I'm in Tokyo!


You're right I don't think it's healthy. People and plants both need calcium and magnesium. I guess if you had a diet with sufficient calcium and magnesium sources then drinking very soft water long term would be fine?

Ha yes, will do it gradually. I just changed my light to standard Chihiros WRGB2 45 yesteday, I am going to see what effects the plants show. Commonly due to once the factors of light/soil/water are set, liquid fert becomes the big component that people could still adjust, hence the huge debate on the fert topic on almost all aquascaping forums i come across aha.

 

[SirBuce]

I don’t think that would be healthy ?
@dw1305

Hi all,

I wouldn't particularly want to drink it. I'm definitely a hard, alkaline water fan <"for drinking">.

In terms of use in the tank, it would make thinks easier, because of the <"blank slate"> aspect and not having issues with high alkalinity effecting pH and <"nutrient uptake">.

Another issue might be that those trace elements we usually ignore because they are "always present" might not be present. We have an example of that in @Hufsa 's <"manganese (Mn) deficiency symptoms">.

This means that you would need to add <"all fourteen"> essential mineral nutrients for plant growth.

cheers Darrel

I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to drink hard water. I drank out of the tap when I stayed in Exeter for a couple of years but didn't notice very much of a difference. I wasn't interested in aquariums or water chemistry at the time so didn't think that much about it. I just briefly looked it up and it seems that the tap water in Exeter is soft to moderately soft. Maybe I'll pay a bit more attention to how the water i'm drinking tastes from now on.

How does high alkalinity (we're talking KH yes?) affect pH? I always thought higher KH means more stable pH. Is it because water with high alkalinity usually has higher pH? Interestingly our tap water apparently has an average pH of 8.2 but barely any carbonates in it (I think!)

I think excessive carbonates messes with a plant's ability to regulate nutrient intake. Quite fortunate to have soft water right out the tap and not have to set up RO filters and stuff like that.

Hi all,

There maybe health benefits of drinking hard water <"Relationship between Regional Distribution of Centenarians and Drinking Water Hardness in the Amami Islands, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan">, but I'm guessing that diet is always more important.

My main issue is actually one of taste and mouth feel. I don't like the mouth feel of very soft water, where it feels like your tongue (and your teeth) are starting to dissolve.

cheers Darrel

Lads I may have some interesting insight on drinking hard/soft water aha, as I spent half my life in Malaysia (tap water is usually not advised to be drank directly, there are areas with incredibly clear mountain water but still generally people boiled water before they drink), and the other half (so far) in UK/Ireland (where here we generally have hard tap water and it is safe to drink - this is applicable for many major european cities).

The thing is that I never care about drinking water quality to the KH, GH, TDS levels until I started the hobby last summer (previously I heard about TDS value from time to time due to missus's work).

UK/Ireland:
It really depends on the areas. It is incredibly funny where a friend from Leeds was shocked by the limescale in the kettle at our gaff that time at Cambridge area ha.
In Ireland, once you are outside of Dublin area (central area has this 60-70 TDS, 0 dKH, 4-6 dGH tap water), I tested middle region countryside Meath tap water TDS at 300-400.
@dw1305 So ya Darrel you are spot on that taste and 'mouth feel', obviously it is a preference thing - like my mum actually loves Dublin (super) soft tap water aha. To me, I actually don't mind tap water from Dublin or Meath aha. I could tell there is a small different taste and mouth feel, but it doesn't bother to me - I would never have guessed that the TDS difference is huge between 2 (rather close) regions, and my mum's preference is justified lol.

Seeing people like MD fish tank - I have always wanted to know what is in his tap water - I think he doesn't even dose liquid fert lol.

Malaysia:
I know that in Malaysia many families have RO systems - that I actually didn't know that you are supposed to remineralize the water for drinking. I definitely remember that (many years ago now), RO water was promoted as the 'healthy' water (just so they could sell these RO systems). So it is not surprising to me that many people there drink near-RO water over there for most of their lives (presumably there should be some remineralization for some of these RO systems).
Generally I have this impression that asians have this obsession to drink super purified water that's why I joked on maybe Japan do drink RO water (is it not famously known their water is super clean aha).

 

[GreenNeedle]

UK/Ireland:
It really depends on the areas. It is incredibly funny where a friend from Leeds was shocked by the limescale in the kettle at our gaff that time at Cambridge area ha.
In Ireland, once you are outside of Dublin area (central area has this 60-70 TDS, 0 dKH, 4-6 dGH tap water), I tested middle region countryside Meath tap water TDS at 300-400.
@dw1305 So ya Darrel you are spot on that taste and 'mouth feel', obviously it is a preference thing - like my mum actually loves Dublin (super) soft tap water aha. To me, I actually don't mind tap water from Dublin or Meath aha. I could tell there is a small different taste and mouth feel, but it doesn't bother to me - I would never have guessed that the TDS difference is huge between 2 (rather close) regions, and my mum's preference is justified lol.

While the UK may be small it is made up of very different rock formations through the lifetime of the Earth. The tip of Scotland and Northern Ireland and some of Norway have travelled from being next to what is now Canada. Other parts of the British Isles have travelled from being trapped in the opposite direction South of where the equator is now and at times have been very close to the South Pole!

Cambridge, Lincolnshire etc sit on a Jurassic limestone ridge that starts in the Bristol Area and crosses the Humber estuary in a J like formation. Looking at the Geology of the UK you will see a rainbow of different base rock geology which of course affects the water hardness I myself live exactly on the side of that Jurassic ridge quite literally. My house is at the bottom of the cliff. I walk my dog up the side of it to the top and I am on different rock.

This is quite interesting if you are into this kind of thing. This page's images don't go back quite as far as when the bottom half of the British Isles was several smaller pieces but its a good idea of where all the countries / continents were and how they have travelled to their current positions

Geological processes in the British Isles: View as single page | OpenLearn

www.open.edu

 

[chickennublet]

Malaysia:
I know that in Malaysia many families have RO systems - that I actually didn't know that you are supposed to remineralize the water for drinking. I definitely remember that (many years ago now), RO water was promoted as the 'healthy' water (just so they could sell these RO systems). So it is not surprising to me that many people there drink near-RO water over there for most of their lives (presumably there should be some remineralization for some of these RO systems).
Generally I have this impression that asians have this obsession to drink super purified water that's why I joked on maybe Japan do drink RO water (is it not famously known their water is super clean aha).

Ahahaha we don't use RO water in my household.

How was your time in Malaysia?