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580l with sump - newbie reef conversion

Hi Andy

I've read your thread and found it very interesting and helpful. I hope you dont mind me asking a question on your threead. I'll start my own as soon as water hits the bottom of my tank.

Andy and I are both members of a Marine Club and like him I'm a recent convert to Tropical Planted. I'm a little behind Andy, my tank is still empty but will be ready to rock and roll in a couple of weeks. One thing that has shocked me is the recommended 50% water change. My tank is 950 litres!. I understand the need for water changes but I've never routinely done a water change so large on previous tropical or marine tanks. Is anyone able to explain the need for this. I want to get this right so if it is needed I will do it (somehow).

I'm leaning towards filling with a 50/50 mix of RO and tapwater for the same reasons that Andy explained I'm struggling to see how I can maintain a heathy tank with tapwater alone. Nitrates from the tap are 50ppm. I cant hop to get this down if I'm constantly doing 50% water changes with tap.

Please help me believe

Keith
 
Hi Keith,

It is my understanding that the large water changes are only needed if you go down the EI route as they are to remove the large amount of dissolved organic material created by the plants, as they grow very quickly under these optimum conditions. I am not really the one to ask, as I still have my "L plates on" and I have not yet mnaged my second 50% water change.

I am not following EI at present, just dosing TFF Plant Nutrition at the suggested dose from Aquarium Plant Nutrition, so I am hoping that I won't actually need such large water changes as my growth and accumulation of organic material should be slower, but I stand to be corrected on this.
 
Thanks Andy, I didnt know what EI is. I found the article and now I do.

It reminded me so much of the balling method for marines.

I think I will follow your approach and see how I get on. I'm still inclined towards 50/50 Ro and /tap. Luckily I have 150 gallon membrane so will be able to produce it quickly.

Keith
 
Hi Andy & Kieth you can read about water changes here http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 2&start=10
Andy, if you bought the ferts I use, then I think that is still classed as EI, the mix just has an additive to allow all the ferts to mix as one so you can dose all at one time instead of alternate day for different ferts.

You guys need to read up on hard water & the effects of tap water (or the benefits) & relax about your water changes.
Also realise that most folk try to use as little light as possible not as much as possible to achieve the results required.

Andy here are a couple of old reactors that should give you an idea or two - I would consider using an UP in the inlet now.

r1.jpg


r2.jpg


r3.jpg
 
foxfish said:
Hi Andy & Kieth you can read about water changes here http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 2&start=10
Andy, if you bought the ferts I use, then I think that is still classed as EI, the mix just has an additive to allow all the ferts to mix as one so you can dose all at one time instead of alternate day for different ferts.

You guys need to read up on hard water & the effects of tap water (or the benefits) & relax about your water changes.
Also realise that most folk try to use as little light as possible not as much as possible to achieve the results required.

Andy here are a couple of old reactors that should give you an idea or two - I would consider using an UP in the inlet now.

r1.jpg


r2.jpg


r3.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi Foxfish,

Thanks very much for taking the time to photograph your reactors. The one I'm using is very similar to your "Merlin", but without the modifications, ie. I have the water and CO2 entering from the top and exiting at the bottom, rising through the central tube. Until today, I had been running it the other way around, which was dissolving very little gas and just sending the mist into the return section of the sump to be returned to the display. Having it configured the other way around seems to be trapping much more of the gas, but it remains to be seen whether or not it is actually dissolving.

I am using the same ferts as you, but having spoken to Tommy today, he suggested that to reach full EI concentration I would have to double the suggested dosing, so I think that I am only supplying the bare minimum rather than running at an excess. I will now start to increase the dose slowly from tomorrow. Do you use the suggested dose, or have you increased and / or supplemented this?

I have finally been brave enough to turn on the powerhead today and I will keep this running throughout the photoperiod in an effort to improve flow.

Still need to get better organised with water changes and I will read the thread you linked to and I will stick with tap water for the time being.
 
I use the recommended dose but I am not presently looking for fast growth & I am just using the minimum amount of gas to avoid algae.
My tank is very stable & established though + I feed my fish 5-6 times a day & add 10ml of nitrogen daily.
I do one weekly 50% water change (straight from the tap) & have two T5s on for 6 hours, I use a LED light source for one hour either side of the main light period.
My tank is approx 300lt & 55cm high, main pump is rated 3000lph + 1000lph power head - these pumps work durring the light period but when lights are out I only use a 1000lph sump pump.
My sump also has a 1000lph power head that blows over 5lts of bio balls 24 -7.
 
Thanks for that information.

What exactly are you adding to add "10ml of nitrogen daily"? Why are you adding this when using the "all in one" fertiliser?
 
foxfish said:
OOPs sorry mate I meant 10ml of carbon (Easy-Life EasyCarbo ) :(
Click to expand...

That makes far more sense!

Just had a look at the reactor and it looks like it won't work that way around as a large amount of gas is collecting at the top. What type of flow of both water and gas were you putting through your reactors?

Do you know of any other threads showing large amounts of gas being dissolved without the need for using a spray bar?
 
Andy that is how they work, gas collects at the top but should only be 10-25mm deep.
I found that flowing water in at a tangent gave completely dissolved C02 with only 10mm collected at the top, this gas would disappear in only a few minutes once the supply is switched off.
The more standard tube reactors still work fine though.
I would still return the water via a full length spray bar, even the spray bar on a big tank needs some thought regarding hole size. I drill smaller holes nearest the pump side, gradually getting bigger near the other end if they are going on a long tank.
The UP works great, especially when you are setting up, I thought you were using one?
 
ALt81 said:
How's the tank coming along? How's the cat litter holding out too? I just purchased 5 bags, rinsed and rinsed and can still smell that odour stuff
Click to expand...

All is good.

I have had an interesting time with dosing nutrients as I had been dosing an all in one fertiliser following the dosing instructions and had seen evidence of nutrient deficiencies, so since I have doubled the dosing I have had better results.

Cat litter is holding its own and is now hardly visible due to plant growth - I did rinse it and soak it until it didn't smell any more though. I will say that it is very light and isn't great for holding plants down initially until they have rooted, so I kept the flow low for the first week.

There are now lots of fish in there as well, so will get pics up later in the week.

Foxfish - I am using an UP atomiser and have been running this into a reactor and this has still given me a sizeable air pocket at the end of the photoperiod, but maybe that's due to me only running 600lph through the reactor? I can still get the dropchecker lime green this way, but it does seem very wasteful of gas as lots of it then dissolves in the dark.

The pressure on the 2kg FE has now started to drop, so I have been having to tweak the CO2 to keep the drop checker green and nearly overdid it today, so I have been getting through CO2 much quicker than I thought I would. Have now found a steady supply locally so I am not too worried.

I have been getting ready to switch from manual dosing of ferts to automated dosing with dosing pumps, unpacked my unit today to find that its faulty so that is going to set me back for a while ......
 
Hi Andy - all good fun eh!

OK so you have an UP set up just before your reactor but there is still a pocket of gas held in the top of the reactor.

If you can work out how long the pocket takes to dissolve then you can switch the gas off one hour before lights out plus the dissolving time. As the gas is still going into your display after lights out this is not good policy as the gas is not required & you are unnecessarily using up C02.

So - does the UP reactor set up work in the fact that no mist is visible?
 
foxfish said:
Hi Andy - all good fun eh!

OK so you have an UP set up just before your reactor but there is still a pocket of gas held in the top of the reactor.

If you can work out how long the pocket takes to dissolve then you can switch the gas off one hour before lights out plus the dissolving time. As the gas is still going into your display after lights out this is not good policy as the gas is not required & you are unnecessarily using up C02.

So - does the UP reactor set up work in the fact that no mist is visible?
Click to expand...

It takes some hours for the gas to dissolve after lights out, even turning off the gas an hour before lights out, but I am only running 600lph through the reactor, so I might try a bigger pump. As far as misting is concerned, I do get some mist escaping from the reactor, but not much andI am worried that if I used a bigger pump that I would get much more escaping. I do want to try to get the water to spin though, so the mist is held in the water for a longer period of time, which combined with a bigger flow might prove more efficient....
 
Hi Andy, to be honest I have now reverted to my age old way of dissolving the gas!
I have tried every way possible over the years but I am back doing what I was doing 20 years ago - I am simply feeding the gas into the inlet of my sump pupm & retuning thought a spray bar at mid water with some holes pointing slightly downwards & some straight ahead.
Yes you do get a mist but my UP kept getting clogged so I had to adjust the regulator every week or so, reactors work OK but I just don't need one.
Some folk say this can damage the pump but I cant see why & besides my last pump lasted 12 years.
I am not suggesting you do this, just pointing out a very simple method that doesn't need adjusting or maintaining.
 
foxfish said:
Hi Andy, to be honest I have now reverted to my age old way of dissolving the gas!
I have tried every way possible over the years but I am back doing what I was doing 20 years ago - I am simply feeding the gas into the inlet of my sump pupm & retuning thought a spray bar at mid water with some holes pointing slightly downwards & some straight ahead.
Yes you do get a mist but my UP kept getting clogged so I had to adjust the regulator every week or so, reactors work OK but I just don't need one.
Some folk say this can damage the pump but I cant see why & besides my last pump lasted 12 years.
I am not suggesting you do this, just pointing out a very simple method that doesn't need adjusting or maintaining.
Click to expand...

Very interesting to know, especially since you have clearly tried many different methods. How are you directing your CO2 into your sump pump?

As yet, I haven't had a problem (that I have seen) with the UP Atomiser clogging. All I have had is a reduction in CO2 due to the pressure of the bottle falling as it is running out. I tweaked it up yesterday what I thought was a tiny bit and the drop checker went nearly yellow, pH dropped to 7.4 and the fish were showing much increased respiration; the plants loved it!

For the time being, I have brought forward by an hour the time the CO2 turns off, so will see what effect if any that has. To give you some idea, I must have 20cm height of CO2 trapped at the end of the photoperiod, which is a lot to waste!
 
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