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Bit of urgent advice please

andy-mu

andy-mu

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2010
Messages
116
Hi Guys,

You don't normally get a subject line like this, but as you read on you'll appreciate whats going on.

I currently have a jbl co2 system. Will be upgrading to FE soon. Anyway, had this for some time, but have
only recently started getting more involved properly in setting up a balanced planted tank. Got my EI good
and recently was upping my co2 to get proper drop checker results. Nice and lime green. All sounds good so far.
Have had the co2 running for a while now and all has been stable in the garden. Lime green every day, so happy that adjustments I'd made were accurate and plants were pearling fine. Doing the water changes, will require a few flow distribution issues to sort, but that's OK, at least I'm on it. System been running for a few weeks now.

I'd noticed guages on the regulator showing contents pressure and about 1.2-1.4 bar outlet pressure. Didn't pay too
much attention as I was monitoring drop checker. Today however and through no input from myself, I noticed the plants pearling like crazy, neons up at the surface for air. Looked at the AM1000 and noticed high co2 levels were obviously being injected as there was quite a large air gap where it had been circulating bubbles before. Outlet pressure suddenly reading 2 bar and quite a volume of co2 has been consumed by the canister. So not a leak but
high injection for no reason. Drop checker now yellow so testament to the high co2.

My thoughts are the regulator's goosed and not maintaining accurate pressure by fluctuating. Does anyone have any views on this? Are these regulators any good? As I said it has been stable for a few weeks now but just suddenly started outputting at higher pressure.

Naturally I'll be watching the system tomorrow as the regulator is off now (2 hours before lights out).
Look forward to your replies for the benefit of the fish. Did notice there has been some shrimp consumed as food.
Only seen one swimming about. Don't know yet how the others are. They seem to be playing hide and seek and are hiding very well. Having noticed the amount of air in the AM1000 I bled the excess off, so this will certainly reduce the amount of co2 dissolved, and the neons are now swimming mid water again.

Here's a link to the system I'm talking about. Mine is a few years old and the regulator looks slightly different
but pretty much the same

http://www.swelluk.com/img/shop/origina ... mage-1.jpg

Just wondering if these are poor quality or if anyone else has had any bad experiences with them.
 
It had been 50 Bar 2 days ago. Did seem to go down a relative amount over the course of yesterday. Down to about 44. Now down about 35 Bar
 
Hi Andy,

I'm not an expert but from what I have read, it sounds as though your CO2 canister is almost out of gas. When this happens, the pressure from the canister can increase and when your using single stage regulators this forces more bubbles out of the needle valve. The following threads explain it better than I can 😀

Regulators

Dual stage regulators
 
Hi J,

Thanks very much for your informative links. On reading them both I am now in no doubt that's whats going on.
I'll drop the pressure tomorrow. But I think a dual stage regulator is the order of the day. Although I can monitor pressure using a single stage which I'm in no doubt the jbl is, I would definately prefer the set and forget.

A regulator I've been looking at which to me would appear to be dual stage is this one on ebay. Do you think this is
a dual stage regulator? I know on your links it states that if it doesn't say dual stage then it probably isnt, however
this does appear to have a working pressure adjustment and needle valve for fine adjustment. What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

I had a look on up aqua website and it has this info. Not 100% clear but it does sound like it is dual stage,
referencing the advantages section where it states it is designed with decompress gate, easy to adjust, stable
and accurate co2 supply. What do you think?

http://www.up-aqua.com/00-dm-page/00up_ ... -2-big.jpg

Thanks
 
Unfortunately I don't think it is a duel stage regulator. Changing the working pressure of the bottle is useful if you're using the new atomiser diffusers like :

Up Atomiser

These new ones require a fair bit of pressure from the canister and if the regulator is factory set with no way of changing it, it might not be able to work with them. I think it's because of these types of diffusers that we're starting to see more easily adjustable regulators with regards to working pressure
This should't be a problem with your AM1000 as there's no ceramic disk to force the gas through.

Sadly, I think the dual-stage regulators command quite a hefty price tag when compared to the single stage ones but i'm not to sure exactly how much, more in the £200-300 region I think. Obviously they're a lot safer with respect to livestock but if you're monitoring the gas levels like you clearly are, it probably isn't worth it.
 
Thanks for your reply. The website is a little misleading. Certainly if I get a 2Kg FE then presuure should be a little more stable than to 500g JBL. Or for a bit longer. Just need to keep an eye on pressure.

It is a learning curve I'm on and I'm learning all the time. You think you've covered all the bases, then find out you haven't.

Thanks again
 
hehe, I'm in the same boat so I completely understand where you're coming from!

From the sounds of things, most people do seem to be able to run the CO2 canisters until they're completely empty without this pressure surge, it's just something to keep an eye on I think. Once you've run the CO2 for a while and have an idea about how long the canister lasts for, i'm sure that will help.

I'm currently setting up a FE CO2 for my tank and i've gone for a single stage regulator myself for what it's worth, although i'm still waiting on delivery.

All the best,
Joe
 
Thanks Joe,

I might have to just use the jbl just now. Missus is putting up an FE fight. It's positioning of it. I'll need to work on her.
Swell do a 3 bottle setup for £50. It is still more expensive but I do need co2 now I suppose. Next day delivery and all. That'll give me time to do the bit of work required to make the FE fit in and time to get a regulator and get it setup properly. FE's definately the way to go though. I'm sure when I put the costs to her she'll change her mind. 4 times the gas for just a little more initial outlay, then refill costs are way cheaper.

Cheers

Andrew
 
Andy mu that reg you linked to on eBay is perfect. It is a dual stage reg, you can control working pressure etc and it shows both cylinder pressure and working pressure. It's the model up from mine and is fine to use. I'd recommend that one but also always check your cylinder pressure as you don't want a co2 dump to wipe out your stock
 
Are you sure Alastair? I think it's most likely dual-gauge as opposed to dual-stage. I might be completely mistaken, but I'm reasonably sure i'm not (apologies, i'm a bit of a fence sitter when it comes to discussions 🙄 )
 
Thanks Alastair.

I'll check the tank tomorrow. But the shrimps absence is probably ominous. I'll know the outcome of that tomorrow. Certainly catching it today has allowed me to save the fish. You could say I caught it early enough. As I'd said to Joe, this just wasn't something I was looking out for up until now. You can bet it'll be a daily check now though.

The one on ebay is the one I'm going to go for, there's just a little DIY to take place to make it all come together.

Cheers
 
J Butler said:
Are you sure Alastair? I think it's most likely dual-gauge as opposed to dual-stage. I might be completely mistaken, but I'm reasonably sure i'm not (apologies, i'm a bit of a fence sitter when it comes to discussions 🙄 )
Click to expand...
I could be very wrong knowing me. However I've had a cylinder run out completely and there was no change to co2 pressure or anything with my reg. Could just have been lucky though lol
 
I'll get one of those regulators Alastair. I'll need to get a JBL to get me by, but the costs are too high for them.

Being at an early stage of setup, I'm also controlling algae that was inherent from it's days as a neglected, undergassed, undernourished tank. Just the staghorn type algae. So removing the dead leaves and pulling off
as much as I can. Naturally a slight increase in co2 can also helpo combat this. Gas consumption is too
high to be running those JBL cans. I'm in effect repairing anestablished tank. I like the plants I've got. Just
time to take control of them now.

Cheers
 
It's alot more cost effective in the long run to go down the fe or pub gas cylinder route. I originally looked at the jbl kits, and was going to purchase one but with having a 120 gallon tank, I'd have been going through bottle after bottle after bottle. Plus, ok I had to wait a few days longer for the reg to cone all that way but I got all my co2 gear for less than 90 pound compared to a couple of hundred that a kit would cost. And the upside is that I've had a 10 litre cylinder on my tank for 4 months now and not had to change. And only 7 squid to refill anyway :thumbup:
 
Price speaks for itself Alastair. And certainly by your experience with the regulator, you've not been subject to the
pressure fluctuations I had. 7 quid, I mean, you just can't beat that.

Tanks just been cleaned and a lot of the plants leaves with algae removed. Did notice a couple of shrimp that have
survived the gassing. If need be I'll get a few more. Be watching that gas like a hawk just now.
 
Ha ha I still check it all the time. It's fine but I still like to be certain. Glad your a few shrimp survived then. I never have much luck finding mine. I've had 50 in the past two months and can only find two. Saying that my cardinals turned a bit shrimp hungry not long ago.
 
That's the regulator bought. I'll get the FE when it arrives. I can get that next day delivery. That'll keep the costs down a bit
 
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