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Calzone's new 120x60x45 optiwhite tank build
- Thread starter Calzone
- Start date
I can't see any reason why you need to get rid of a perfectly good piece of media with a good bacterial population on it. Unless you don't keep on top of maintenance or don't have enough solids ore filtering and the pores all get clogged up with grunge. But even then a good wash in old tank water should do the job. Have never changed any in the lat yar and fish all still v happy as far as I can tell. These things are non-perishable.
A
Antipofish
Guest
Calzone said:
Spot on ! I may even change all my ehfisubstrat pro for siporax to be honest. I like the notion that siporax is 34 times the capacity than regular ceramic noodles (though I admit I don't know the comparison to matrix or ES pro. I have to say, I would imagine that matrix ought to be good for flow because reefers are well and truly into their flow, although saying that, mostly they use circulation pumps. I got right into the notion of the Deltec pump which used to electronically ramp the flow up and down to create a surge effect. Now the bloomin Eheim electronics even do that !!
A
Antipofish
Guest
curefan said:
The first level of mechanical filtration should be washed when necessary. If your prefilter section is doing its job properly and you keep that clean (once a month, depending on how mucky it gets) you should not really need to touch the mechanical section too much... I used to go on once every three months. The further layers really should not need touching unless they are getting dirty, but the whole idea is that the first stage is mechanical, next biological and finally any chemical stuff you use like some use carbon, some use purigen (PM me if you want to know more about that or search for it on here).
DEFINITELY only wash it in tank water though
Finally took delivery yesterday of the CO2 regulator, which was the last piece of the jigsaw before plants. Been on order for about 6 weeks. Apparently only half the back orders were supplied so I got "lucky" (arguably...). Its the TMC v2 Pro, two gauges, needle valve and solenoid in one. Feels solid.
Also secured a 6.35kg CO2 cylinder from local Calor gas distributors (Slyfield estate nr Guildford) for £18. Bargain. Cylinder is huge but won't be visible behind the tank (82cm tall).
Below you can see the cylinder, plus regulator, plus some other bits and pieces eg dry salt ferts, timer plugs etc. Feels like there's no end to the amount of stuff needed.
Close up of the other bits:
Also got the lights out of the box and fitted the legs. Comes with 4 arcadia tropical pro bulbs, with two switches. Very low profile.
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/742/img7207y.jpg
Here it is on the tank. Not sure the what white balance the camera was on, but you can see the lights are very pink:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8712/img7209dt.jpg
Close up of the islands under better light. Note the algae/fungus I had before is mostly gone - this seems clearly related to the ammonia in the water dropping - nh3 gone, fungus/algae gone. Nitrite still 2ppm or so.
End on shot:
Next step- decide on plants, buy them, book day off and plant! Finally! I have a Koralia 2800 also, mnight be a bit overdone but we'll see. If I cant get flow distribution good with two large filters, and big powerhead and an AM1000 reactor fed by a massive CO2 cylinder, then I'm probably not cut out for this lark
Also secured a 6.35kg CO2 cylinder from local Calor gas distributors (Slyfield estate nr Guildford) for £18. Bargain. Cylinder is huge but won't be visible behind the tank (82cm tall).
Below you can see the cylinder, plus regulator, plus some other bits and pieces eg dry salt ferts, timer plugs etc. Feels like there's no end to the amount of stuff needed.
Close up of the other bits:
Also got the lights out of the box and fitted the legs. Comes with 4 arcadia tropical pro bulbs, with two switches. Very low profile.
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/742/img7207y.jpg
Here it is on the tank. Not sure the what white balance the camera was on, but you can see the lights are very pink:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8712/img7209dt.jpg
Close up of the islands under better light. Note the algae/fungus I had before is mostly gone - this seems clearly related to the ammonia in the water dropping - nh3 gone, fungus/algae gone. Nitrite still 2ppm or so.
End on shot:
Next step- decide on plants, buy them, book day off and plant! Finally! I have a Koralia 2800 also, mnight be a bit overdone but we'll see. If I cant get flow distribution good with two large filters, and big powerhead and an AM1000 reactor fed by a massive CO2 cylinder, then I'm probably not cut out for this lark
darren636 said:
they dont refill, they just take it back and give you another one for £18. Still v cheap per kg. Ask for beer / pub gas and not CO2. Its food grade CO2 from Air products I think. But just beer gas as far as they are concerned.
hinch
Member
Calzone said:
be careful with that as beergas can also be nitrogen + co2 not just pure co2
Hi all,
Honestly it doesn't matter, all the bits about pore space etc are just words, they may be true but it doesn't really mean anything. You can 1/2 fill the filter with any of ceramic rings, Alfagrog, Siporax etc. it really doesn't make any difference. The same with "aerobic/anaerobic" and "N2 out-gassing" it is the same, all irrelevant to us.
Why bother trying to maintain the extremely tricky balance between aerobic and anaerobic, when you can just have aerobic filtration and then use plants to remove the NO3? It is a no-brainer, I can't even think of an analogy.
What really matter is how much O2 you get into the filter, more O2 = more biological filtration capacity.
The biological filtration capacity of any of these media is immense, as long as you can keep them oxygenated. This is why "wet and dry" trickle filters are so good for biological filtration, they have immense gas exchange capacity.
People like canister filters for all sorts of reasons because they are quiet, neat, convenient, have Eheim written on them, etc. not because they are optimal for filtration.
cheers Darrel
If you take it out you can sell it to me! it works and it looks just like coco-pops, what more could you want from a filter media?
Honestly it doesn't matter, all the bits about pore space etc are just words, they may be true but it doesn't really mean anything. You can 1/2 fill the filter with any of ceramic rings, Alfagrog, Siporax etc. it really doesn't make any difference. The same with "aerobic/anaerobic" and "N2 out-gassing" it is the same, all irrelevant to us.
Why bother trying to maintain the extremely tricky balance between aerobic and anaerobic, when you can just have aerobic filtration and then use plants to remove the NO3? It is a no-brainer, I can't even think of an analogy.
What really matter is how much O2 you get into the filter, more O2 = more biological filtration capacity.
The biological filtration capacity of any of these media is immense, as long as you can keep them oxygenated. This is why "wet and dry" trickle filters are so good for biological filtration, they have immense gas exchange capacity.
People like canister filters for all sorts of reasons because they are quiet, neat, convenient, have Eheim written on them, etc. not because they are optimal for filtration.
cheers Darrel
A
Antipofish
Guest
dw1305 said:
Hi Darrell, I have to disagree with you on this. I have spoken to several people at the top of their field, including a cutting edge aquatic retailer and aquascaper who stocks EHEIM filters but will not stock their media in preference for Sera Siporax. Most who have used both and been in a position to develop a preference, go with the Sera. 34% greater ability to house biological bacteria. That has to be worth something. I know what I would prefer
The limiting factor with these type of biological filter media is oxygen!
It doesn't matter how porous the media is - inside a closed environment only so much biological activity can take place due to the amount of oxygen available.
If you expose the same media to an oxygen rich environment like a trickle filter then there might be a difference but there is no need as "none porous plastic bio balls" in a trickle filter are sufficient to be tenfold more effective than any porous media in a waterlogged plastic tube!
Its all about surface area & oxygen but, there is no point in having huge surface area without oxygen.....
It doesn't matter how porous the media is - inside a closed environment only so much biological activity can take place due to the amount of oxygen available.
If you expose the same media to an oxygen rich environment like a trickle filter then there might be a difference but there is no need as "none porous plastic bio balls" in a trickle filter are sufficient to be tenfold more effective than any porous media in a waterlogged plastic tube!
Its all about surface area & oxygen but, there is no point in having huge surface area without oxygen.....
A
Antipofish
Guest
foxfish said:
Are you saying that smooth surface ceramic media can hold the maximum bacteria possible that the oxygen levels in an enclosed canister system can sustain ? What scientific evidence do you have to support this ?
No I am not saying that, I am saying there is a limit to the effectiveness of porous media inside a plastic box with limited oxygen.
You can have 10 billion holes per square inch of media or 20 trillion holes per square inch but only a fraction of the surface area will be effective.
If you expose the media to air then the only limiting factor is bacteria food!
On that basis there is no need for a porous media in a trickle tower because the non clogging plastic bio balls will be effective enough.
You can have 10 billion holes per square inch of media or 20 trillion holes per square inch but only a fraction of the surface area will be effective.
If you expose the media to air then the only limiting factor is bacteria food!
On that basis there is no need for a porous media in a trickle tower because the non clogging plastic bio balls will be effective enough.
A
Antipofish
Guest
foxfish said:
OK I must have missed something cos I thought we were talking about canister filters not trickle towers. My bad.
OK this is getting confusing!
I thought you were contradicting Darrel's comment about porous media only being as effective as the amount of oxygen that is available?
I thought you were contradicting Darrel's comment about porous media only being as effective as the amount of oxygen that is available?
Antipofish said:dw1305 said:
Hi Darrell, I have to disagree with you on this. I have spoken to several people at the top of their field, including a cutting edge aquatic retailer and aquascaper who stocks EHEIM filters but will not stock their media in preference for Sera Siporax. Most who have used both and been in a position to develop a preference, go with the Sera. 34% greater ability to house biological bacteria. That has to be worth something. I know what I would prefer
A
Antipofish
Guest
foxfish said:
I was contradicting his comment that it makes no difference what media you use, in the context of it in a canister filter which is what Calzone and me were talking about originally. I disagreed, and still do disagree that it makes no difference whether you use smooth ceramic media or something like siporax. I DO agree that biological filtration is limited by the amount of available oxygen. But I also believe that the oxygen available is sufficient that a media with more surface area like siporax will have greater effect per volume than a less supportive media. Does that make sense ? I don't feel I explained it very well.
OllieNZ
Member
Has anyone actually measured disolved o2 inside a canister filter with differnt types media?
According to this http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html nitrification slows below 80% D.O. and stops below 2mg/l. The larger the bacteria population the quicker the o2 depletion, especially in an enclosed environment like a canister filter.
According to this http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html nitrification slows below 80% D.O. and stops below 2mg/l. The larger the bacteria population the quicker the o2 depletion, especially in an enclosed environment like a canister filter.
