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Hemianthus micranthemoides doesn't like me

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28 May 2013
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I am trying Hemianthus micranthemoides for the second time in my new tank (about 2 weeks ago replanted). The first time it didn't do well at all, but at that moment I had a GH and KH problem, now however that is no longer an issue, still this nice plant doesn't seem to like me, it grows somewhat but doesn't look healthy while plants next to it do very well and need a trimming every week......
Does anyone here have any idea what the problem could be???

I don't want to make a big deal out of it, if the HM doesn't like it I can replace it with another plant (maybe Blyxa...), but help is very welcome
 
Hello,
Plants do not have a GH or a KH problem The fish ought not to care too much either. AS mentioned by Yo-han, Hemianthus micranthemoides does not tolerate CO2 incompetence. For a thorough analysis. More data is required. Photos would be of great value, for example.

Cheers,
 
I forgot to mention that in the beginning not only GH and KH where low (isn't KH used as a vessel?) but also a PH of 3....

So what if they are low?

Here is a Ludwigia ovalis and friends in RO water at ph 3.5 and with low GH/KH. These plants don't care.
Half the people in the world think that low pH/KH/GH is a problem and the other half think that high pH/KH/GH is a problem.
Both halves suffer dreadful problems such as algae and poor growth performance because they are hypnotized by parameters that make very little difference, and in so doing they ignore the things that actually matter, like CO2, nutrients, flow and distribution.
9513674671_bfb767637b_z.jpg


Cheers,
 
Indeed I always thought that those GH, KH and PH had a impact on plant growth, same as in gardens, I guess that everyone ones or twice heard about acid rain and maybe even seen the effect this has on plants, it is a fact that some plants like acid soil while other would die (still talking about garden plants), I never knew that this has little effect on plants in our fish tank.
Anyway, I opened the valve some more on the CO2 and maybe look to my flow....although the plants (Proserpinaca palustrisand and Staurogyne repens) right next to my HM are doing really wello_O
 
So what would be the minimum GH for most plants?
There is no minimum GH or KH. GH/KH for GH/KH's sake alone is entirely irrelevant. Ca and Mg just have to not be zero. That's all..
As a matter of fact, suppose the sediment contains Ca and Mg and suppose these elements do not leech into the water column. GH can then be zero because the plants still have access to sediment Ca and Mg.

For KH, some plants actually will grow better in a tank with high Carbonate/Bicarbonate concentration because they can convert the Bicarbonate to CO2. This is one reason, for example that Vallis grows well in Bicarbonte rich water, even if the tank is not CO2 enriched. But again, this is a side issue. Adding sufficient CO2 will usually disable this behavior, because it's energy expensive.

Another way of looking at the minimum required level, is: whatever GH occurs as a consequence of the the water having the minimum level of Ca an Mg that the plants require to avoid suffering Mg and Ca deficiency is the minimum GH. The minimum will be different in my tank compared to your tank because there are different environmental stresses.

One of the reasons that we almost never see Ca deficiency is because Ca, once it enters a leaf, seldom, if ever, exits the leaf. The leaf therefore accumulates Ca, so even if it is present only in very small concentrations, ultimately it will accrue in the leaf to whatever level is required by the plant. Magnesium is needed for chlorophyll production, but just have a look at the molecular formula for a typical chlorophyll molecule=> C55H72MgN4O5
For every Mg atom in the Chlorophyll, there are 55 Carbon atoms and 72 Hydrogen atoms. The molecular weight of that Chlorophyl is about 894 and Mg is about 24, so Mg is only 24/894, or about 0.00027% by weight of Chlorophyll, so really, only a miniscule amount is needed. Obviously, if there is zero available in the tank then the value is too low, otherwise it's not difficult to have enough Mg.

As far as upper limits, well, for most plants I've grown, I have not seen any upper limits for GH and KH. Check this thread for the lvalues that I have actually actually used => Do I need magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4)? | UK Aquatic Plant Society

So it's safe to say that at the KH and GH of most tap water, you will not find any issues with high GH/KH, again, except possibly for a half dozen species. Even so I have grown some of those species in hard water, but they did not look as nice as they could have done when grown at lower KH/GH values.

Cheers,
 
PH of 6.4 with a KH of 4 should tell me that there is enough CO2
That doesn't tell you anything. You need to look at the CO2 concentration profile at regular intervals from gas on to lights off. Only then can you see how the gas is behaving.

If your filter is powerful enough, then you don't need spraybars or powerheads. I advocate the use of spraybars only because it's the easiest path of ensuring good distribution of flow. There are more aesthetic alternatives, such as lily pipes and so forth, and they work well if they are executed properly to ensure good flow/distribution.

I mean, one can also experience failure while using spraybars if they are placed/oriented improperly or if the flow energy is too low, so I have a standard placement/orientation scheme to minimize or eliminate errors when using the bars, and we suggest to use them in conjunction with the 10X filter turnover rule.

Again, it doesn't mean that you have to do it this way, or that doing it another way will always fail. It's just a simple standard technique that works in most cases. All the science has been worked out already for you, just as with the dosing scheme. So you don't have to be Albert Einstein to figure any of this out. Just follow the basic schemes and tweak from there.

One also has to look at the manner in which the gas is being dissolved, as well as the injection rate and the injection timing. So there are a lot of other factors to consider.

What you want to avoid is to be considerate of factors that are either irrelevant, or which only have a negligble effect. pH/GH/KH are three of those types of negligible factors. People waste a lot of time and energy trying to micromanage these parameters, under the Matrix induce illusion that they are super important, but, as it turns out, none of those efforts have any palpable effect. In fooling around with the parameters they may stumble upon something that has a positive effect, but that's just luck. The vast majority of plants have a wide variety of conditions that they can tolerate, so it's useless to focus on these miniscule factors while ignoring the larger and more important fundamentals that affect plant growth.

For carpet type plants, getting CO2 and flow to the substrate is critical. These small plants do not typically live deep under water in nature.They are normally marginal plants (by "marginal" I mean at the margin of the land and water) Many of these plants are not typically found fully submerged, so because of that they usually have easy access to CO2, and as a result, they have not learned how to become efficient at CO2 uptake while under water. So when you dump them 60cm under water and throw gobs of megawatt radiation at them, they fail due to poor gas exchange ability.

So if you follow the same misguided procedure, such as thinking that the plants need lots of light, while being oblivious to their real needs, such as gas exchange enhancement, then odds are that you will continue to experience failure with those species.

Here is a general clue:
When a species of plant is labeled as being "difficult" it's ALWAYS because the plant lacks the talent to uptake CO2 efficiently while being submerged. It's never ever because the plant requires megawatts of light.

Cheers,
 
I didn't give the tank more light...I know that this would only ask more CO2 ...I only gave more CO2 for now....
My pump is 1800ltr/hour, which is not enough for a 300liter tank, so I guess that this is my problem (maybe still need to put in a power head)
20130916_193656_zpsd8993ad6.jpg

here a picture...hope it helpes
 
Hi all,
Didn't like me either.
For carpet type plants, getting CO2 and flow to the substrate is critical. These small plants do not typically live deep under water in nature.They are normally marginal plants (by "marginal" I mean at the margin of the land and water) Many of these plants are not typically found fully submerged, so because of that they usually have easy access to CO2, and as a result, they have not learned how to become efficient at CO2 uptake while under water. So when you dump them 60cm under water and throw gobs of megawatt radiation at them, they fail due to poor gas exchange ability.
You can show this really easily if you grow it emersed <Hemianthus>. Once it has access to atmospheric CO2 levels it becomes very easy to grow.
micranthmum_micranth_lge.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
The Hemianthus micranthemoides still doesn't want to grow very well, strangly enough though that my HC al of a sudden is growing. Lights on the PH is 6.5, lights off it's 7.2 (KH 4)...extra powerhead worked for the HC but not so much for the HM, so they will have to go:( , I'm replacing them with Blyxa
 
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