Lighting Advice Needed

[mark4785]

I currently own a planted aquarium which has two 22 inch 24w high output fluorescent tubes by Hagen. I have tried two kinds of bulb with the above specifications called 'PowerGlo' (found here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAGEN-POWER-G ... 500wt_1056 ) and 'LifeGlo' (found here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAGEN-LIFE-GL ... 500wt_1056).

When using a pair of either of these kinds of light, white particles begin to develop and attach to the aquarium glass, filter and leaves and choke the plants. There is also a green algae that develops on the glass. This is despite having an optimum level of co2 diffusion, 50 ppm of nitrate and ample amounts of phosphate.

Given the above, I'm adamant that my light levels are too high. Problem is, I don't know how to lower the light levels. Do I look for a bulb with lower wattage or lower PAR?

I have 120 litres of water and 48w worth of light. 120 litres converted to gallons is 26 UK gallons so 48 watts divided by 26 UK gallons equates to 1.846 watts per gallon. Is this high light or low light?


Any advice or fluorescent bulb recommendations would be very much appreciated as I desperately need to lower the light levels to stop algae growth. Note: I do have plants in the aquarium that require high light (i.e. limnophillia sessiliflora - this plant is not growing too well currently) so I can't drop the light levels too much.

 

[ceg4048]

...I do have plants in the aquarium that require high light (i.e. limnophillia sessiliflora

No there is no such thing. This is another myth. There are no plants that need high light. That's what gets us into trouble in the first place.

. - this plant is not growing too well currently)

Due to poor CO2 for that lighting level, no doubt.

...so I can't drop the light levels too much.

Yes, you can mate.

It is unlikely that you will find bulbs with significantly lower PAR that fit the same ballast and fixture. If disabling a bulb is not an option then what you need to do is to obfuscate the light entering the tank using any form of barrier you have. Dark acrylic, or even cheesecloth will do the trick until you work out your CO2/flow issue.

Regardless of whether anyone calls this configuration high light or low light it's clear that there is an infrastructure issues causing problems. It's impossible to consider that one has an "optimum level of CO2 diffusion" if the plants are clearly exhibiting a CO2 deficiency syndrome.

Cheers,

 

[mark4785]

...I do have plants in the aquarium that require high light (i.e. limnophillia sessiliflora

No there is no such thing. This is another myth. There are no plants that need high light. That's what gets us into trouble in the first place.

. - this plant is not growing too well currently)

Due to poor CO2 for that lighting level, no doubt.

...so I can't drop the light levels too much.

Yes, you can mate.

It is unlikely that you will find bulbs with significantly lower PAR that fit the same ballast and fixture. If disabling a bulb is not an option then what you need to do is to obfuscate the light entering the tank using any form of barrier you have. Dark acrylic, or even cheesecloth will do the trick until you work out your CO2/flow issue.

Regardless of whether anyone calls this configuration high light or low light it's clear that there is an infrastructure issues causing problems. It's impossible to consider that one has an "optimum level of CO2 diffusion" if the plants are clearly exhibiting a CO2 deficiency syndrome.

Cheers,

How is it clearly a co2 deficiency causing the issue with the Limonphilia when I'm making use of a diffuser which provides a fine mist of bubbles, which in turn float across the tank in all directions, and results in the drop-checker turning a lime green colour. Anymore co2 entering this tank will risk the health of the fish as has happened once or twice on upping the co2 entering the tank using the pressure reducer. This is what really frustrates me; being advised that I should up the co2 concentration (when I can't for the sake of the fish) and that flow isn't adequate when the drop-checker indicates otherwise.

Would you like me to provide a video recording of the aquarium showing the drop-checker, bubble counter and power-heads (to demonstrate flow direction) so that everything in my set-up can be subjected to critique in order to find the issue at hand here? I for one am getting sick to death of algae and constantly throwing out dead plants despite doing my utmost. I need somebody with a little bit of experience just to tell me what I'm doing wrong here because I'm clearly useless at this hobby.

 

[darren636]

stick a picture up. The answers are right here. We just have to find them.

 

[Nathaniel Whiteside]

...I do have plants in the aquarium that require high light (i.e. limnophillia sessiliflora

No there is no such thing. This is another myth. There are no plants that need high light. That's what gets us into trouble in the first place.

. - this plant is not growing too well currently)

Due to poor CO2 for that lighting level, no doubt.

...so I can't drop the light levels too much.

Yes, you can mate.

It is unlikely that you will find bulbs with significantly lower PAR that fit the same ballast and fixture. If disabling a bulb is not an option then what you need to do is to obfuscate the light entering the tank using any form of barrier you have. Dark acrylic, or even cheesecloth will do the trick until you work out your CO2/flow issue.

Regardless of whether anyone calls this configuration high light or low light it's clear that there is an infrastructure issues causing problems. It's impossible to consider that one has an "optimum level of CO2 diffusion" if the plants are clearly exhibiting a CO2 deficiency syndrome.

Cheers,

How is it clearly a co2 deficiency causing the issue with the Limonphilia when I'm making use of a diffuser which provides a fine mist of bubbles, which in turn float across the tank in all directions, and results in the drop-checker turning a lime green colour. Anymore co2 entering this tank will risk the health of the fish as has happened once or twice on upping the co2 entering the tank using the pressure reducer. This is what really frustrates me; being advised that I should up the co2 concentration (when I can't for the sake of the fish) and that flow isn't adequate when the drop-checker indicates otherwise.

Would you like me to provide a video recording of the aquarium showing the drop-checker, bubble counter and power-heads (to demonstrate flow direction) so that everything in my set-up can be subjected to critique in order to find the issue at hand here? I for one am getting sick to death of algae and constantly throwing out dead plants despite doing my utmost. I need somebody with a little bit of experience just to tell me what I'm doing wrong here because I'm clearly useless at this hobby.

Whoa buddy,
Thats what makes it a hobby, because you learn as you go on. If you cannot 'up the Co2' then down the lights by either, as clive rightly (as he is 110% of the time.. ) said.

This can be done by obscuring one lighting, as stated or to also increase the distance between the lights and the substrate ie. lifting it away from surface of the tank.

Don't start fretting about being useless, we have all learned (and still learning!) from somewhere, which is why your doing the EXACT thing you should be doing. By asking for help.

At your disposal are some of the worlds finest minds, ask the right questions & get the right answers.

Hope you sort it,

 

[hinch]

thing to remember is a drop checker only measures co2 at that one point in the tank thats why we have to ensure good flow around the entire tank.
what I tend to do is use dechlonineator solution and drip it in along my spray bar and because it doesn't disolve immediately i can see where abouts is getting good flow or bad flow. If you're saying your co2 is as high as you can put it then look to make more efficient use of the co2 you have in there at the moment.

 

[darren636]

ha ha! If you think your tank is bad- you should have seen mine after i got back from holiday

 

[mark4785]

Well I've uploaded numerous photos of the algae and white particles and attached those below. I've also incorporated a 3 minute video showing the particles, algae and the flow. It would seem that these 'white particles' are the most prominent in the middle areas of the tank, layering the leaves of many plants (there is also a lot of these particles stuck to the filter) while a layer of greenish algae is coating the back pane of glass. Limnophila doesn't look very bushy; I suspect the white particles are killing it (only the top half of the plant looks at it's best because either the faster surface flow is knocking the bits off or the flow contains ample co2 and nutrients). If I can get the particles of the Limnophila plant, it will hopefully flourish and stop the back pane algae from growing.

The foreground plant named Marsilea Hirsuta is growing and spreading very quickly and has no particles/algae. I find this strange and can't explain the discrepancy.

In summary, the white particle issue needs to be rectified first. I don't know where to start though in terms of getting rid of this other than re-introducing Amazon Frogbit (surface floater) which will stop particle formation and algae, but will also kill all the hair grasses, the Marsila hirsuta and most of the cryptocoryne plants (I know this to be fact based on past experience).

Images:




















Video
Video should be 480p as HD movies take too long to upload
Click http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqwS4FhJ7w&feature=youtu.be if video doesn't load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqwS4Fh ... be/youtube

 

[mark4785]

Bump.

 

[mark4785]

Any recommendations on what I could change to stop the white particles from growing?

A plant which I recently introduced (cryptocoryne wendti green) is growing well and has no white particle growth. Given this, if I were to do a blackout on the tank, would the white particles die back off of all the plants and cease to grow? I think the liquid carbon has stopped the white particles taking hold on this newly introduced plant (just speculating at this point though).

 

[Nathaniel Whiteside]

The point at which you Zoom in on I believe a Cryptocoryne ( just had quick look!) at 3:02 looks to be a co2 deficiency or seems to be too much lighting?

Are the white particles actually growing? Or are they part of the top layer of skin from leaf ? Possibly with the light intensity, causing it to break down.

I can't really see from my phone though mate, it looks ridiculously fustrating.
Reduce lighting and go from there buddy?

 

[mark4785]

The point at which you Zoom in on I believe a Cryptocoryne ( just had quick look!) at 3:02 looks to be a co2 deficiency or seems to be too much lighting?

Are the white particles actually growing? Or are they part of the top layer of skin from leaf ? Possibly with the light intensity, causing it to break down.

I can't really see from my phone though mate, it looks ridiculously fustrating.
Reduce lighting and go from there buddy?

I really don't know what to do as some are saying the particles are forming because of co2 deficiency while others are saying its due to the lighting. Reducing the light level kills off about 40% of the plants I have in there (from having reduced the light level before).

The particles aren't growing and I don't know where it is coming from.

Is this a flow problem or a light problem?

 

[Garuf]

Is your water very hard? I seem to remember that in highlight tanks calcium can form on leaf surfaces if the water is hard.

 

[darren636]

can you wipe away these white things?

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
How long is the aquarium been running?
How much water do you change and how often?
Get some floating plants.
hoggie

 

[Garuf]

"iogenic decalcification is when there is a deficiency in CO2 in the water. The plants take the Carbonates and break them down into CO2 and precipitates carbonates. What this means in your tank is that the pH will rise and you will see calciumcarbonate deposits on the leaves of your plants. Calcium deposits look like a coating of "white powder". If left unchecked for an extended period what will eventually happen is; the KH of your water will drop to dangerously low levels and you will suffer a pH crash! To avoid this, the addition of CO2 is recommended." I'm not sure if this is related, perhaps Ceg may chime in but this is my gut instinct from what you describe.

Source:http://www.discusnews.com/article/cat-04/plantsetup.shtml (doesn't offer a fix however just the above explanation).

 

[mark4785]

Is your water very hard? I seem to remember that in highlight tanks calcium can form on leaf surfaces if the water is hard.

My water hardness is 6dH

 

[mark4785]

Hi
How long is the aquarium been running?
How much water do you change and how often?
Get some floating plants.
hoggie

Its been running for 2.5 years and I do a 50% water change every friday. As said, floating plants will kill most of the plants that I (due to the shade created) have and want to grow without this white particle adherence.

 

[mark4785]

can you wipe away these white things?

Yes, they come off easily. It's as though some person has come along and tapped a salt pot over the aquarium while I weren't looking...


"iogenic decalcification is when there is a deficiency in CO2 in the water. The plants take the Carbonates and break them down into CO2 and precipitates carbonates. What this means in your tank is that the pH will rise and you will see calciumcarbonate deposits on the leaves of your plants. Calcium deposits look like a coating of "white powder". If left unchecked for an extended period what will eventually happen is; the KH of your water will drop to dangerously low levels and you will suffer a pH crash! To avoid this, the addition of CO2 is recommended." I'm not sure if this is related, perhaps Ceg may chime in but this is my gut instinct from what you describe.

Source:http://www.discusnews.com/article/cat-04/plantsetup.shtml (doesn't offer a fix however just the above explanation).

You could may well be right but I don't have the expertise to accept or deny that explanation. The PH definitely will rise between 12:00 am (this is when the timer shuts off the co2 supply) and 2:00 pm (this is when the timer kick starts the co2 supply). The level of co2 and the schedule of dosing of co2 was the same when I had Amazon Frogbit blocking out some of the PAR and I never had a case of iogenic decalcification. It only came about when the light levels were increased.

 

[Garuf]

Hmmm. Looking at the photos again you've definitely got insufficient co2 hence the algaes and I suspect this build up but if even the finest of trimming is causing lethargy then I'm at a loss at what to suggest other than perhaps a fresh set up to restart the system as it were.