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Low-tech riverbank

Thanks Darrel, that should be good for some more reading!

LancsRick said:
Lovely looking biotope. Do the ancistrus behave themselves with all those plants? Always loved plecs, but avoid them like the plague in my planted tanks!
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They generall do. Only exception is that narrow leaf echinodorus (why can't I remember the name!). They sometimes scrape that for algae it seems but they will damage it in the process.
 
Been too long since any updates.

I've eventually removed the nymphaea since it was rapidly outcompeting anything else in there. Managed to give it away to someone setting up a 140cm community tank.

11184566394_b69cfdaf2a_z.jpg
The full tankshot by j_wijnands, on Flickr

and after:
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DSC_1340 by j_wijnands, on Flickr

Still not quite where I want it to be but it's an improvement. I've also changed the filter's spraybar to the other end of the tank which has greatly reduced the BBA, some Easycarbo helped with that but I have to be careful with that as not to lose too much of the algae on the wood. I've started to replaced a few of the most shabby looking echinodorus latifolius by fresh ones from the runners they send out.

Fishy pic:
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dw1305 said:
Hi all, That is true, the lower sediments often have negative REDOX values (-200mv), and the Fe ions can be in the reduced ferrous state (Fe++) for uptake (although converted to Fe+++ in the plant cell), and because of this plants can enhance both reduction and acidification of the substrate and this increases both root ferric-reducing capacity and uptake of ferrous iron. A fuller description is here at the ever reliable "Skeptical Aquarist" <Iron transformations | The Skeptical Aquarist>.

In alkaline or oxygenated substrates this is all irrelevant, as any ferrous or ferric iron ions will be re-precipitated as insoluble phosphates or hydroxides as soon as they are formed, unless they are chelated by the DOC. Plant roots are leaky structure and because of the requirement for oxygen for cell respiration the immediate rhizosphere is usually oxygenated. An interesting point is that plants that naturally grow in acid, anoxic sediments go to great lengths to oxidise and precipitate the iron in the rhizosphere, as iron toxicity is much more of a problem than iron uptake.

The real problem with the rusty nail is really "how is the reduced iron going to reach the plant?", as soon as any Fe ions come into contact with a non-reducing environment they will be precipitated as insoluble compounds. If you substituted "a rusty nail" for some very widely spread iron source in the substrate such as iron filings, (or staples?) then root uptake becomes a more viable option.

cheers Darrel
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Very interesting...it's only anecdotal but way back in my early days, the Amazon swords in my 100% moss peat substrate were suffering the symptoms of iron deficiency, so being the logical thinker I am I placed a rusty old 4inch nail in the peat amongst the roots. Within a couple of weeks new leaves showed no sign of iron deficiency whatsoever...
 
So I'm not the only person that has had success with the simple old methods.
 
Lovely aquarium wijnands! As competitive aquascaping becomes more and more sophisticated the more I appreciate a good old fashioned setup like yours. It may sound strange, but setups like yours give me a more peaceful feeling than do the "high level" aquariums I see these days. I find that quite appealing.

If you're still having issues with Iron, Granular Ferric Oxide used for PO4 control in reef tanks is a good option. It has to be fairly pure for use in those systems so you don't need to worry about funky stuff getting in and causing issues. Put some of it in a gel capsule used for pharmaceuticals and push it down as far as you can get it into the substrate near, but not right next to your plants. If it's in an area of low or no oxygen then it'll solubilize and diffuse through the substrate. Adding a little gelatin to the cap will supply some carbon for the substrate bacteria to consume and use up the oxygen, enhancing solubilization.
 
Hi all,
Troi said:
it's only anecdotal but way back in my early days, the Amazon swords in my 100% moss peat substrate were suffering the symptoms of iron deficiency, so being the logical thinker I am I placed a rusty old 4inch nail in the peat amongst the roots. Within a couple of weeks new leaves showed no sign of iron deficiency whatsoever.
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I think you are right and that it was the reduced iron from the rusty nail. I also think that the 100% moss peat substrate is as relevant as the nail. In anaerobic, acidic, reducing conditions some of the ferric oxide would be reduced to ferrous ions and become available. The peat substrate is a carbon source and is very unlikely to be fully aerobic all the way down the substrate profile, so will have a a range of REDOX potentials. This is from: <Flooded soils - MicrobeWiki>
Although ferric iron exists as an insoluble form in flooded soils, more ferrous iron can accumulate by the reduction of ferric iron over time. .........In general Fe(III)-reducing fermentative bacteria can be readily isolated from gleyed soils.
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Well worth a read.

cheers Darrel
 
K. R. Reddy at the University of Florida and R. Michael Smart (my grad advisor) have a number of publicly available papers on substrates. A Google Scholar search can net some really interesting papers if you're so inclined. I think Dr. Reddy's personal page at the uni has a list of his publications with downloadable or readable links. Many of Dr. Smart's papers are accessible via the US Army Corps of Engineers technical paper website as well. Here's Dr. Smart's page. All the technical reports are available down near the bottom. Environmental Laboratory: Search
 
@Phil: thanks for the compliment! Old fashioned setups like these also allow a lot more room for error, you don't have to be on top of everything every single day.

Nutrient wise I think I have things under control now. I had some problems with stunted growth and even some chlorosis. After some intense measuring I got it figured out for now. 5ppm nitrate, 0.5ppm phosphate after the water change and another 0.2ppm phosphate mid-week. Also twice a week some profito for other elements. Got stable growth now again on most plants, a flowering anubias and steady and predicable growth on the floaters.

2 weeks ago the snails had managed to dig up a jbl pellet. Not knowing exactly what it was at first I picked it up with my tweezers. Big mistake! That clouds like you wouldn't believe.
 
Very nice tank I really like it. What floating plants are you using? Also what are the big red leaved plants in the background?
 
Also what lighting are you using on this tank? Are they T5s? Just wondered as I am trying a low tech Rio 125 with the standard lighting too.
 
@matt: This is the Rio 125 with the stock T5 tubes that came with the tank. The floater is amazon frogbit. I keep it mainly to keep the hatchets happy. The red plant was a nymphaea zenkeri which is often sold as a red lotus.
 
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