Moving from a reef background

[nphsmith]

Hello all. This is my first post on this forum - I hope it won't too ignorant or rambling. I have been running a 500 litre reef tank at my office for the last 20 months, as well as (helping) with my daughter's 2-foot tropical community tank.

At Aquatics live 2012 my daughter and I were both inspired by some of the planted tanks we saw, and had some nice chats with UKAPS members.

I have finally received permission from my wife to put a small tank in the corner of our living room. The space I have is exactly 45*45 centimetres.

The sort of thing I have in mind creating is something along the lines of:
SuperWen's 2012 Aquascapes | UK Aquatic Plant Society - though if I can get anywhere near 25% as good on a first attempt I will be more than delighted!

I'm intending to get a TMC Signature Optiwhite - either 45*45*45 or 45*45*30, along with accompanying stand. My current thought is to get the 45cm high version as it will allow me to increase the 3D sense of the tank - but I am open to being advised it is a mistake.

My also current thought is to get a single Grobeam 1000ND tile. Again, very open to being told this is a mistake.

I live in London so the water is very hard (Comes out of the tap at 18GH, 8.3PH). I have access to RO water (from my office reef setup). Should I just accept that I have hard water and go for only plants that will survive that? Or should I mix say 50% RO and 50% tap? Or just RO and mineralize it (If that is a word - and if so can someone point me to a guide)?

I intend to run CO2. It is very important that everything looks beautiful (For my wife's sake), including equipment, so can anyone advise on best-looking CO2 kit that does not compromise functionality. The location will be slightly difficult to access under-tank (I will have to move a small table to get access to the stand), so ideally I would prefer to run bigger CO2 bottles than the little disposable ones so I don't have to change too often. I would also like this kit to be electronically controlled so I can turn off the CO2 overnight, and would ideally like to be able to buy all kit in one or at least from one manufacturer. I'm aware that is a long list of specifics so am aware I will probably need to compromise!

I have loads more queries about livestock, substrate, etc, but figure that is quite enough for one post! Many thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[foxfish]

Hi & welcome to the forum - nice reef you have.
Most reefers come along wanting to use the huge sump design tanks for a planted display but they don't normally stay around that long!
Anyway there are a few things I would recommend.. look up Fire extinguisher CO2 set ups under the tutorials, lots of nice regulators & valves to choose from but the FE is a very good way to match it all up.
Flow around the display is the key to success, the CO2 enriched water needs to feed all levels of your display, read & read about flow & how different scape's can effect the flow.
I would strongly recommend you don't stock any fish until you have got everything working & the plants growing, experimenting with gas levels can be deadly & so much less stress without fish in the early stages.
The simply fact are - lots of gas & not so much light works very well for growing plants & is pretty easy but, add fish, shrimps etc & thing need a lot more balance.

 

[Arana]

Welcome to UKAPS +1 for what Foxfish said and i wouldn't worry about the London water i have it too and i have never found anything that wont grow in it yet

 

[nphsmith]

Hi & welcome to the forum - nice reef you have.
Most reefers come along wanting to use the huge sump design tanks for a planted display but they don't normally stay around that long!
.

Thanks for the welcome. I get the impression that sumps are pretty rarely used. I'm toying with the idea, if only so I can hide the heater away - but it does seem a bit excessive just to hide heater.If I were to inject CO2 in to a sujmped body of water, would it come out of the water before it gets back to display tank? Keeping all the CO2 gubbins tucked away might be quite attractive.

Anyway there are a few things I would recommend.. look up Fire extinguisher CO2 set ups under the tutorials, lots of nice regulators & valves to choose from but the FE is a very good way to match it all up.

Will do.

Flow around the display is the key to success, the CO2 enriched water needs to feed all levels of your display, read & read about flow & how different scape's can effect the flow.

OK. Am I right in understanding that the potential issue with 45cm depth is not light penetration but CO2 enrichment? Can one enrich at both a lower and upper level of the water?

I would strongly recommend you don't stock any fish until you have got everything working & the plants growing, experimenting with gas levels can be deadly & so much less stress without fish in the early stages. The simply fact are - lots of gas & not so much light works very well for growing plants & is pretty easy but, add fish, shrimps etc & thing need a lot more balance

Fine with that. I am used to doing a 12 week quarantine on marine fish so have learnt (some) patience!

 

[nphsmith]

Welcome to UKAPS +1 for what Foxfish said and i wouldn't worry about the London water i have it too and i have never found anything that wont grow in it yet

Thanks, good to know about water.

 

[foxfish]

You really need to read up on the whole concept of C02 injected tanks

You can use... an inline heater, an inline Co2 atomiser & a power filter so all you see in the tank is some fancy glassware if that is what you want.
Yes you can use a sump (I do) but it will burn up co2 at a much faster rate as the gas disperses down the overflow!
Imagine a fizzy drink in a bottle (water with C02 in other words) the more you pour it the more gas is lost, to avoid to much loss we circulate the water in a nice even steady manner, so sumps are ok but be prepared to use lots of gas.
The easy way to get a good even flow is via a custom made, full tank length spray bar, fitted just under the water & across the back.
This will send the C02 enriched water across the surface, down the front glass & along the bottom through the plants, in other words a circular flow patten using the whole tanks volume.
If you use a decent power filter that pushes 10 x the tank volume through the spray bar via an inline (external) atomiser or reactor via a valve & regulator connected to a 2 kg fire extinguisher - then you will have a tried & tested working set up.
I use a sump on my 200lt tank but it is set at tank level not underneath so there is not so much lost gas.
There are some benefits of using a sump of course one being the simplicity of injecting the C02 directly into the sump pump & another, the use on an auto top up.
However a quality power filter is defiantly the favoured method.
PS some of the mods dont like discussion on the welcome threads!

 

[ceg4048]

Am I right in understanding that the potential issue with 45cm depth is not light penetration but CO2 enrichment?

Yes, this is correct for any tank of any depth.

Can one enrich at both a lower and upper level of the water?

Yes you can, however, 45 cm is not really that big of a problem assuming that you follow the 10X rule, and assuming you implement proper distribution. Please review the thread Water flow in the planted aquarium? | UK Aquatic Plant Society which give an idea of a possible solution to adequate flow/distribution. There are other solutions of course, but many find the ideas discussed in that thread to be easy and useful.


Cheers,

 

[nphsmith]

You really need to read up on the whole concept of C02 injected tanks

You can use... an inline heater, an inline Co2 atomiser & a power filter so all you see in the tank is some fancy glassware if that is what you want.

Very definitely what I'm looking for! So, things like Hydor Heater, UP CO2 Atomizer, and an Eheim filter means almost everything is below other than a return pipe (perhaps to a spray bar). Return pipe at back of tank and presto, invisible equipment? My wife will be delighted! I would still need a PH Drop Checker in the tank presumably? I assume it's possible to have a PH probe, but that feels like overkill for the size of tank I'm looking at?

PS some of the mods dont like discussion on the welcome threads!

Unless I've got things horribly wrong this is General Planted Discussions? Am I in the wrong place. <Looks around in confusion>

Thanks again.

 

[nphsmith]

Please review the thread Water flow in the planted aquarium? | UK Aquatic Plant Society which give an idea of a possible solution to adequate flow/distribution. There are other solutions of course, but many find the ideas discussed in that thread to be easy and useful.

Thanks. Just to clarify, on the first page of the discussion you had 2 pictures of your spraybar - the second one -

- shows the spraybar spraying into air. Is this just illustrative, and normally covered by water, or do you actually have the spraybar out of the water?

 

[foxfish]

Ha Ha Touche!
Spray bars are generally fitted just below the surface, that picture is just illustrative however that design would work very well in an emersed set up!
Just in case you did not know, virtually all our plants are much happier growing out of the water in a very humid environment & are in fact sold to us it that form.
You may be more interested in lily pipes than spray bars anyway but, if that is the case you might prefer a reactor to an atomiser too!
You see atomisers do as the name suggest & in effect fill the tank with micro bubbles, the visual effect is termed as 'mist'.
Mist has (supposedly) a better absorption potential than completely dissolved CO2 but I doubt if that would really be an issue in small tanks?
Mist also has the benefit of showing the flow & how it is behaving inside the tank however a reactor will not produce the mist effect & your wife may prefer that?
If you are into gadgets there is plenty of scope though... PH meters are great but the PH controllers are so so good for what we require however computerised LED lights are cool, auto water change & auto dosing is great too LOL... I do like a gadget myself

 

[thelats1981]

Good luck, however you decide to do it.

I read your entire journal on your reef tank at lunch today, a great read. It looks like you're up for a challenge and won't shy away easily!

I love the fact that people are coming across from the marine side which seems to have historically considered the pinnacle of aquariums!