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Paper packaging

Joined
6 Feb 2024
Messages
217
Location
Hampshire
I noticed that Dennerle have some gravels in A4 sized card boxes. And given that you can get cat litter and other heavy ish stuff in paper bags, and that the hobby is made of people who supposedly love nature, how come nearly everything comes in plastic packaging?

Maybe stuff is damp when packaged? Seems pretty contradictory of the industry not to find a better solution...
 
Those dennerle boxes then have the gravels in plastic bags inside, I’ve used a few.
 
Substituting plastic with paper and cardboard isn't really a realistic solution. . .

'I'll just put these wet plants in a paper bag for you, should be fine for a few minutes.'

Neither is it necessarily greener. . .

Paper requires more energy to produce. It is also heavier resulting in higher transport emissions. Paper therefore, has an overall higher environmental impact than plastic. It is also a water intensive and polluting industry. It takes 5 litres of water to make a sheet of paper.

Not all paper is recycled properly, a large percentage ends up in landfill, where it can take just as long as plastic to biodegrade. And where it also contributes to methane gas emissions. Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

Global paper production figures are huge. 4 billion trees are cut down to make paper every year - the equivalent of 1% of the Amazon Rainforest. Logging and industrial tree plantations are leading to the destruction of natural forest, resulting in biodiversity loss and CO2 emissions.

Contrary to popular belief, our oceans are not full to the brim with plastic. The global weight of plastic pollution on the sea surface is only 0.1 percent of the world annual production. Plastic straws account for 1% of that, 0.001%. Also, plastic in the ocean degrades under UV radiation in decades not 100s or 1000s of years.

Plastics replaced products made from animals and therefore make an important contribution to wildlife conservation. For instance, tortoise shell products like combs from sea turtles, allowing populations to rebound. The same with elephant ivory prized for its beauty and plasticity in making combs, piano keys, and billiard balls. And whales; baleen was used to make corsets and fishing rods, etc. . .

Then there is the human cost of denying people in developing nations plastic. The life improvements, incidentally which we in the developed nations have taken for granted for decades, are life saving.
 
Neither is it necessarily greener. . .

I agree. While there are more environmentally sound ways of packaging stuff - recycled and/or biodegradable plastic, cardboard etc. - a big part of the problem as I see it, is that we tend over-package everything excessively - be it our groceries or the packages we get from Amazon (an ironic name for a massive polluter btw.) etc.

Cheers,
Michael
 
I have almost given up with trying to save the world with my recycling bin. Have a look after one week what you put in that thing. Its bloody insane.
Honestly, do you know what happens to that? How on earth do you think that it gets turned into anything useful, but more packaging at absolute best? And how much energy does it take to do that anyway?
I work in the printing industry and basically we cover everything that is recyclable in solvent based ink unless you like micro beads or toxic dye.
I saw a recycling bin the other day. One side was for recycling and the other general waste. I looked inside when i put my paper in. Not only was the lining bag plastic but all of the rubbish went into one big bag. No division at all. I think that says it all really!

Don't get me started.....

I still try my best for what its worth...
 
denying people in developing nations plastic
I hear what you are saying and have an interest in 'international development' but this comment is getting off topic really. The point is that an industry which so readily harks on about replicating and enjoying nature does very little to distinguish itself from any other industry. I've just looked at the websites of Tropica, Wio, Dennerle and ADA and none of them mention anything about trying to be sustainable or anything similar. They should be falling over themselves competing to be the best in that area and there is nothing...

I should say, I haven't read minutes of AGMs or read annual reports or news, and I would dare to believe that they do continually improve the efficiency of their production processes and greenhouses. However, there doesn't seem to be any attempt to have that impact the product branding or message or make improvements at the immediate product level. I assume that is either because there is no attempt to make improvements in that area or because they believe either rightly or wrongly that customers don't care
 
I hear what you are saying and have an interest in 'international development' but this comment is getting off topic really. The point is that an industry which so readily harks on about replicating and enjoying nature does very little to distinguish itself from any other industry. I've just looked at the websites of Tropica, Wio, Dennerle and ADA and none of them mention anything about trying to be sustainable or anything similar. They should be falling over themselves competing to be the best in that area and there is nothing...

Okay those are very different companies btw... but anyway, what do you specifically suggest they should do? ... the reason why I am asking is because in this day and age companies that claims sustainable production methods, delivery etc. often turns out to be offering nothing more than hollow posturing.

Cheers,
Michael
 
It's confusing,when supermarkets started not free anymore now the pay for plastic shopping bags ,we thought they would work on a biogradeable alternative, hessian based or similar biodegradeable. But a few years on it seems just the same if not most plastic bags sold(someone's making a mint) l guess increasing their profits is number one priority. Even noticed the trolleys are now made in plastic
 
I hear what you are saying and have an interest in 'international development' but this comment is getting off topic really.
Most of the wild caught fish in the hobby are exported from developing nations and the industry is a major source of income in some developing nations, and more importantly some otherwise impoverished communities. Further, involving the indigenous population in fish and plant collecting can have positive outcomes for conservation. None of this would be possible without plastic packaging.


I should say, I haven't read minutes of AGMs or read annual reports or news, and I would dare to believe that they do continually improve the efficiency of their production processes and greenhouses. However, there doesn't seem to be any attempt to have that impact the product branding or message or make improvements at the immediate product level. I assume that is either because there is no attempt to make improvements in that area or because they believe either rightly or wrongly that customers don't care
Efficiencies always impact on a business's bottom line. This especially so when energy costs are at an all time high and margins are already squeezed to the limit. And especially when you have hectares of greenhouses to heat and water, and are trying to absorb some of those escalating costs to keep the retailers who sell your products in business.

It makes cold hard economic sense for companies like Tropica and Dennerle, to have long since developed best and low cost strategies and practice, and that involves the use of plastic packaging. Without it their business would no longer be able to distribute to an international market place and spread costs through increased turnover, and therefore would no longer be as viable.

Without plastic packaging they would be less able to support nurseries and associated jobs in developing countries. This is a mutually beneficial arrangement, not least providing jobs for the poorest of poor in those nations, but it also enables the likes of Tropica to keep costs down, which would otherwise be transferred to the consumer, the likes of us.

Higher costs mean the hobby would become increasingly inaccessible, which in turn would lower demand, increase unemployment, result in less international development, and ultimately the hobby would probably become increasingly niche and exclusive.
 
It's confusing,when supermarkets started not free anymore now the pay for plastic shopping bags ,we thought they would work on a biogradeable alternative, hessian based or similar biodegradeable. But a few years on it seems just the same if not most plastic bags sold(someone's making a mint) l guess increasing their profits is number one priority. Even noticed the trolleys are now made in plastic
I take old backpacks / gym bags to the supermarket… had some sniggers from other customers. To me it makes perfect sense to use anything that holds stuff, when you need to hold stuff.
 
Tropica ahead of me here with these interesting clips not pots. This is the kind of thing I expect from the industry but don't come across that often


Would be great if you could return the clips to Tropica retailers to return to the Tropica farm for reuse. Perhaps they could promote it with a penny per clip to a charity or something.
 
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