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Potting soil substrate
- Thread starter yhooly
- Start date
Hi all,
There are <"loam based aquatic soils"> that people have used successfully
You can use a small amount of garden soil, either <"mineralised or not">. @ElleDee is a fan of some soil <"Biding Time (22 gal, no CO2)"> as well as @Tim Harrison - <"Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide">.
Personally I'm willing to trade short term growth for long term stability, so I just add a <"very minimal amount of leaf mold"> and <"acid clay"> to my sand substrates.
<"I don't vacuum">, so I think my substrate will become slowly organically enriched over time <"Aquarium Biofiltration - SWISSTROPICALS">, via <"natural processes">.
cheers Darrel
I'd keep well away from anything with <"green waste compost">, or <"controlled release"> fertiliser, in it. If you did want to use it? I'd only add a small amount.
There are <"loam based aquatic soils"> that people have used successfully
You can use a small amount of garden soil, either <"mineralised or not">. @ElleDee is a fan of some soil <"Biding Time (22 gal, no CO2)"> as well as @Tim Harrison - <"Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide">.
Personally I'm willing to trade short term growth for long term stability, so I just add a <"very minimal amount of leaf mold"> and <"acid clay"> to my sand substrates.
<"I don't vacuum">, so I think my substrate will become slowly organically enriched over time <"Aquarium Biofiltration - SWISSTROPICALS">, via <"natural processes">.
cheers Darrel
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ElleDee
Member
Yes, you can use potting soil. I will share my own experience since a lot of it predates my time here and it isn't the focus of my journal.
I did my first two tanks with potting soil (or a very similar product) in a manner similar to that video. I don't remember exactly which Miracle Grow organic product I used, but I know it was primarily "composted forest products"/bark mulch with a small amount of organic amendments. I want to say it was labeled as something for raised beds and if you looked on the back of the bag it was essentially the same as their potting mix, but without perlite. I added a small amount of my native iron-rich clay (aka stuff dug out of my yard) and a little horticultural lime for Mg and Ca.
I'll give you some snapshots of how those tanks have changed over time, but please keep in mind that I was a rank beginner and not really trying to "aquascape" in any fashion. These aren't award-winning show pieces, but I hope the photos demonstrate continued substrate performance over time. I have tried lot of different stuff over the years, but the substrate hasn't been changed. They are low maintenance tanks, incredibly stable, and my 20 gallon long is actually better at growing stuff than Biding Time (though it basically doesn't have a layout at this point).
Here's my 20 gallon long, set up in April 2020 (yes, it's a COVID tank).
Sept 2020, 5 months old
March 2021, 11 months old
August 2022, over 2 years old
April 2024, 4 years old
And here's my 5 gallon kitchen tank, set up May 2020
*I did have a disastrous start with this one where I tried to go without a filter. These pictures start with the rescape, but the substrate was not changed.
September 2020, right after the rescape
June 2021, 9 months from rescape, the substrate is just over a year old
May 2022
December 2023
I would not do it this way again, but honestly it wasn't a bad way to go, especially as a beginner who was reluctant to invest a lot of money in a new hobby. Even though this mix was almost entirely organic material, I didn't find it that difficult to manage* and four years later the substrate is still functioning great. I don't think bark mulch really breaks down that fast, so it's not as "hot" as many other organic materials, so there wasn't a huge dump of carbon and nutrients right at the beginning and whatever material that remains is now home to lots of bacteria whose respiration I rely on for CO2. It was messy at the beginning to plant and uproot stuff, but not impossible (I have removed rampant vallisneria from one tank and dwarf sag from both and lived to tell the tale), and 4 years on it's a lot less of an issue.
Edited to add: I think I had better results with potting soil than non-ADA aquasoil, Biding Time just looks better because I had a lot more experience. For my next tank, I'm strongly considering going back to a capped, dirted tank, but I'm not going to go entirely with organic material because I want to build up some depth.
I did my first two tanks with potting soil (or a very similar product) in a manner similar to that video. I don't remember exactly which Miracle Grow organic product I used, but I know it was primarily "composted forest products"/bark mulch with a small amount of organic amendments. I want to say it was labeled as something for raised beds and if you looked on the back of the bag it was essentially the same as their potting mix, but without perlite. I added a small amount of my native iron-rich clay (aka stuff dug out of my yard) and a little horticultural lime for Mg and Ca.
I'll give you some snapshots of how those tanks have changed over time, but please keep in mind that I was a rank beginner and not really trying to "aquascape" in any fashion. These aren't award-winning show pieces, but I hope the photos demonstrate continued substrate performance over time. I have tried lot of different stuff over the years, but the substrate hasn't been changed. They are low maintenance tanks, incredibly stable, and my 20 gallon long is actually better at growing stuff than Biding Time (though it basically doesn't have a layout at this point).
Here's my 20 gallon long, set up in April 2020 (yes, it's a COVID tank).
Sept 2020, 5 months old
March 2021, 11 months old
August 2022, over 2 years old
April 2024, 4 years old
And here's my 5 gallon kitchen tank, set up May 2020
*I did have a disastrous start with this one where I tried to go without a filter. These pictures start with the rescape, but the substrate was not changed.
September 2020, right after the rescape
June 2021, 9 months from rescape, the substrate is just over a year old
May 2022
December 2023
I would not do it this way again, but honestly it wasn't a bad way to go, especially as a beginner who was reluctant to invest a lot of money in a new hobby. Even though this mix was almost entirely organic material, I didn't find it that difficult to manage* and four years later the substrate is still functioning great. I don't think bark mulch really breaks down that fast, so it's not as "hot" as many other organic materials, so there wasn't a huge dump of carbon and nutrients right at the beginning and whatever material that remains is now home to lots of bacteria whose respiration I rely on for CO2. It was messy at the beginning to plant and uproot stuff, but not impossible (I have removed rampant vallisneria from one tank and dwarf sag from both and lived to tell the tale), and 4 years on it's a lot less of an issue.
Edited to add: I think I had better results with potting soil than non-ADA aquasoil, Biding Time just looks better because I had a lot more experience. For my next tank, I'm strongly considering going back to a capped, dirted tank, but I'm not going to go entirely with organic material because I want to build up some depth.
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Hi all,
The problem with the domestic green waste compost is that <"it isn't fully decomposed"> (although some of the fixed nitrogen will have gone) <"Green compost from green waste by "IMOG" process (ID:280) | NUTRIMAN">.
cheers Darrel
I think that is probably the important bit, the bark is <"nearly all lignin"> and that has a very low <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD)">.
The problem with the domestic green waste compost is that <"it isn't fully decomposed"> (although some of the fixed nitrogen will have gone) <"Green compost from green waste by "IMOG" process (ID:280) | NUTRIMAN">.
cheers Darrel
ElleDee
Member
Exactly. Balancing the type and amount of organic matter seems to be the critical for success with a dirt tank, but there's an uncomfortable amount of guesswork because the material is so variable and can lead to uneven outcomes. That's why I initially went with potting soil, actually - not because it was the best option per se, but because there are a ton of people using the Miracle Grow organic line and it seemed workable. And cheap!
I mentioned going to @Sudipta's recent AGA talk on high energy non-injected tanks on my journal, and he talked about a few tanks he tried that didn't perform as expected, includeding a non-ADA aquasoil that had poor growth after the establishment period, probably due to not enough organics and nutrients to sustain the plants over time, and a tank with some kind of soil substrate topped with fresh Amazonia that had rampant algae that likely had too many. Of course, he is pushing the envelope with his plant selection and more forgiving plants would have worked out, but it's the same fundamental issue of balance. I sympathize with the people who avoid the issue all together by sticking with an inert substrate or going to extremes to remove as much DOC from the system as possible, but I think if you aren't injecting CO2 you are leaving too much on the table if you go that route.
Hi all,
That is why I like Oak (Quercus spp.) or <"Beech (Fagus spp.) leaf mold">, it is going to add <"slow to decompose"> organic matter and a <"varied microbial flora">, but only a limited amount of nutrients. I believe that leaf mold is the <"growing medium of choice"> for Cryptocoryne growers <"Oak leaf mould">.
Tom Barr (@plantbrain) wrote some posts on his experiments with sediment, in a thread <"Soil substrate, nutrient dosing, and CO2?"> that @Tim Harrison started, and also in <"Darrell's (dw1305's) soil thread">.
cheers Darrel
The variability is the issue. Potentially you can do the same with <"sediment nutrients"> as you can with water column ones, all the way from <"Triffid to running on petrol fumes">.
That is why I like Oak (Quercus spp.) or <"Beech (Fagus spp.) leaf mold">, it is going to add <"slow to decompose"> organic matter and a <"varied microbial flora">, but only a limited amount of nutrients. I believe that leaf mold is the <"growing medium of choice"> for Cryptocoryne growers <"Oak leaf mould">.
Tom Barr (@plantbrain) wrote some posts on his experiments with sediment, in a thread <"Soil substrate, nutrient dosing, and CO2?"> that @Tim Harrison started, and also in <"Darrell's (dw1305's) soil thread">.
cheers Darrel
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Both these scapes were grown low-energy in a mix of 1:1 Westlands aquatic compost and Westlands Irish moss peat, with a couple of large handfuls or horticultural grit. The depth of the soil was generally around 30-40mm. The soil was deeper in the scape immediately below; it was banked to about 60mm toward the back to give some height.
I know the plants aren't pushing the envelope of what's possible, but the growth was quite vigorous. Aside from using a similar soil mix they were both capped with a similar depth of fine sand, which I think may have effectively sealed the soil off from the water column, or maybe at least didn't allow much in the way of water movement, nutrient transference and gas exchange.
Maybe, this is a key element to success, locking the nutrients away in the soil and leaving the plants to oxidise the rhizosphere. It's the method I used way back in the day too, with similarly good results. I don't think I used much in the way of fertz, at least to begin with, and when I did I think the plants were already very well established. Either way I didn't have any algae problems. I used the same Arcadia T8 luminaire on both, usually on for around 10-12 hours a day. The water was very hard.
P.S. just remembered, I probably used TNC Lite which is just traces, inc. 1% K.
I know the plants aren't pushing the envelope of what's possible, but the growth was quite vigorous. Aside from using a similar soil mix they were both capped with a similar depth of fine sand, which I think may have effectively sealed the soil off from the water column, or maybe at least didn't allow much in the way of water movement, nutrient transference and gas exchange.
Maybe, this is a key element to success, locking the nutrients away in the soil and leaving the plants to oxidise the rhizosphere. It's the method I used way back in the day too, with similarly good results. I don't think I used much in the way of fertz, at least to begin with, and when I did I think the plants were already very well established. Either way I didn't have any algae problems. I used the same Arcadia T8 luminaire on both, usually on for around 10-12 hours a day. The water was very hard.
P.S. just remembered, I probably used TNC Lite which is just traces, inc. 1% K.
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ElleDee
Member
Yeah, I think there's something to the rich substrate/lean water column combo too, at least for tanks with slower growth, which would include even the happiest low tech tank. Plant roots have so many tricks to extract what they need from the soil, where foliar feeding is passive.
Mr.Shenanagins
Member
I’m a soil user as well, and a big advocate. Here’s the current state of mine, not the most recent picture but close enough.
Dirt/Soil Tank
This is for all those weary of setting up a dirted style tank, the results speak for itself. This tank has a base layer of crushed lava rock, pond soil (DynaDirt-US based pond lily soil), and capped with blasting sand. I used @Tim Harrison method of laying down a soil retainer between the soil...
www.ukaps.org
