Starting a Planted Tank - I'm trying to fail less miserably

[Ashley Metal]

Hey there,

--If you don't want to read my ramblings-- I have been given a load of bad/conflicting advice in running a planted tank, I'm getting annoyed about spending money pointlessly on "that one more thing" that will bring success, and seeing everything repeatedly die. I've made a list of everything I think I will need to do it properly, and would be grateful if anybody could check it for me--

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I walked into my local fish store, bright eyed and bushy tailed, about 6 months ago to get started with this hobby; I had drunkenly e-mailed my landlord asking him for permission to keep a tank, and for some unknown reason he said yes. He was probably drunk too. Cue the start of borderline obsession. I was sold a dream, lush plants and colourful fish, and was told that with a modicum of hard work and effort, I could achieve much with the amazing all inclusive 80 odd litre starter set, that was so attractively on sale, some fine gravel and sand, and a bunch of useless rubbish they'd upsold me to. Sooner or later, all of the plants died, so I went back and they told me I had deficient fertilisation. So I bought an all in one fertiliser (JBL 24, I think. The drop or two a day one.) Then the plants died again. I went to another fish store. They told me I had insufficient water flow, so I bought a canister filter. The plants died. They told me I had deficient lighting. So I upgraded 30 watts worth of T8 into 60 watts of T5 grow lights with good quality reflectors. The plants died again. I tried another shop, and they told me it couldn't be done at all: both original shops had told me that the quality of substrate was irrelevant, and I could do well with sand and very fine gravel if fertilisation was good enough. Furthermore, they told me it is almost impossible to have a nicely planted tank with more than couple of fish in it, yet I see in photos that isn't the case.

I'm tired of being given conflicting/bad advice and dropping more and more money on things - I mix drinks for a living, and it's taking a toll. I'd much rather just save save, buy the right stuff in one go, gut the tank, and have one last go at keeping plants.

My tank specifics:

Size: 60x40x35cm 80ish litres
Filtration: Hydor Professional 150 (600lph)
Lighting: 2x iQuatics T5 24W tubes. 1 "tropical" plant growth light, and one 50:50 white:blue.
Livestock: 2 clown loaches with the aim of getting one more (I know they get big, and a friend has said he'll take them off my hands when they outgrow the tank), a few neons, 2 platys, a couple of guppies, and two others I don't know the name of (they have the black line down them).

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This is the shopping list I think I will need to not fail miserably at keeping plants that aren't crazy demanding.

New substrate: Probably eco-complete or similar, or is using potting soil like the Miracle-Grow Organic enough?
A CO2 system: I work in a bar, so it's not too hard to find gas bottles/regulators if I look hard enough.
An adjusted fertilisation regime: probably EI or similar?

Thanks

 

[ian_m]

2 clown loaches

They are completely incompatible with planted tanks. They either uproot all your hard work (HC is impossible), leave "U" shaped holes in bigger plants eg crypts which then due or just scoff all the new growth eg Glosso.

My planted tank only became easy to look after and fantastic growth after I got rid of my loaches to a friend.

 

[Julian]

Hi Ashley, welcome to the forum.

Definitely get your hands on a CO2 set, this is probably the reason your plants died, along with not having any fertilizer. Make sure the regulator has a needle valve (don't go for an inline needle valve - these are useless). Also get a drop checker. Most people (myself included) will end up nuking their tank and killing all the live stock so be very cautious.

EI is the way to go for fertilizer, have a look at the APFUK EI starter kits, make sure you get some Magnesium - I live in London also, pretty sure there's no where near enough Mg in our water to keep plants alive. Don't bother messing about making it up into a liquid, just get the salts and some spoons and you're good to go.

Your LFS was right about the substrate, you can use whatever you want as long as you add fertilizer. As long as you aren't using the dry start method, you'll be fine.

Send me a PM before you spend any money and I'll point you in the right direction!

 

[PARAGUAY]

First of all welcome to UKAPS. All us of are on learning curves to some degree, you need to take a small step back and read as much as you can ,especially the tutorials,experts articles,the sponsers on here have info and readily help,look for forums discussing any aspect what might wish to know more about.Personally I would take it gradually rather than go out buying expensive equipment,that will come later.Clown Loaches have a torrid time as shops readily sell them without telling you they need to be in large groups and 6FT minimum aquariums are recommended. Growing plants require several factors,light, fertilisation,CO2 even with all this there are easier and more difficult types.Again personally I would start with "easy "plants till you get more in to it.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

again personally I would start with "easy "plants till you get more in to it.

Definitely. I'd also start low tech. with some easy plants. If you have light and water plants will grow.

Have a look at Troi's tutorial <"The soil substrate..... a how to guide">.

I've got plenty of suitable spare plants you can have, PM me your address. I don't want any money for them, but if you could cover postage.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ashley Metal]

Thanks very much for the replies folks. I realise getting loaches was probably a bad idea. I fought a losing battle for both hairgrass and monte carlo, so I realise that with them getting carpeting plants will be difficult, if not near impossible. I suppose there will just have to be a judgement call as to re-homing them or working around them.

I think you're right as to using easy plants. I'll have another flick through Tropica's catalogue and see what's in that range. Darrel - Thank you very much, your offer is very generous. When I get the funds together to attempt the conversion, I'd be more than happy to take you up on it.

As for substrate, I'm still a little sceptical about not using proper soil. Most videos I've watched/articles I've read stress its importance. Annoyingly, the ADA Amazonia seems the most favoured, but leeches ammonia for the first few weeks. I've got nowhere to put my fish while it does that (bar the tiniest little quarantine thing), so it seems off the cards. Any suggestions as for which one to use?

Best,

-Ashley

 

[ian_m]

Annoyingly, the ADA Amazonia seems the most favoured, but leeches ammonia for the first few weeks

Just do daily big water changes or use something like Amquel+ daily that will remove ammonia. I have had to use Amquel+ when re-setting a tank up with new substrate and having no spare tank to keep fish in. Works well.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

As for substrate, I'm still a little sceptical about not using proper soil. Most videos I've watched/articles I've read stress its importance. Annoyingly, the ADA Amazonia seems the most favoured, but leeches ammonia for the first few weeks. I've got nowhere to put my fish while it does that (bar the tiniest little quarantine thing), so it seems off the cards. Any suggestions as for which one to use?

Honestly there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the sand you have already.

A substrate with added nutrients and "cation exchange capacity" will offer faster growth, but it isn't a "wonder ingredient" that makes all the difference, whatever the sellers may tell you.

Even with your loaches you can have plants on bog-wood like Java Fern (Microsorum) and Anubias, sub-surface floaters like Hornwort (Ceratophyllum) & Indian Fern (Ceratopteris) and floaters like Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium). All of these get their nutrients (via the leaves, stems and roots) purely from the aquarium water.

This tank has about 2cm of silica sand as a substrate and very low levels of added fertiliser (via the <"Duckweed index">).

Have a look at "Akwaskape" posts in <"Cryptocoryne parva carpet"> etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[Andy Thurston]

re the clown loaches
as darrel says you can keep anubias etc with clowns but expect some damage to your plants. heres my clown loaches in a tank with just plain gravel no ferts at all and lit with 2x t5

excuse the rubbish iphone pic

 

[EnderUK]

Hmmm I posted this in the wrong thread. So here it is again. haha.

I think you need to stop and decided exactly what you want to do with the tank. The problem seems that you've seen the final goal and just jumped straight into it with more advice from people trying to sell you stuff. Really you need to decide if you want to do the following...

Low light low tech - with the 2 x t8 you can do this by removing reflectors and getting easy plants such as crypts, swords, anubias, vallis, dwarf sag, floating plants,etc so you can basically have a jungle of plant with low a maintenance tank. Possibly go down the dirt tank route or just use sand with fert tabs and the duckweed index

low light high tech - with 2 x t8 liquid carbon, this will open up some plant groups but close others as the liquid carbon melts some plants. Plant growth will increase and you'll have to dose liquid or salts to just shy of EI levels. Probably still use some floaters to kill some of the light.

High light High Tech - Those t5 you've bought will melt plants without proper gas injected carbon. IF you go down this route expect high maintenance tank with rapid growth pretty much any plants but much less room for error which can cause algae issues.

If you want to keep the loachs then maybe you could go with a low tech anubias jungle .

 

[Marc1t]

Hi & again welcome to the forum!
Firstly everything that has been said here is great advice I am a complete novice As well & have had good success on taking advice from this forum, you can see some pics of my tank in the thread First attempt in this section, not perfect I'm still on the lower slopes of the learning curve, you've come to the right place. As has already been stated read all the tutorials thoroughly & follow the advice here, it is correct, I have learnt that creating a planted tank requires patience it is an eco system after all in equilibrium. Take things one step at a time & research everything before making any changes to your tank.
Good luck.

 

[Ashley Metal]

Thanks very much for you help everybody. I did some research into the plants I had, the ones I would like, and what maintenance will have to be done to have them. It looks like I've been sold some fairly high maintenance plants, and the few that weren't have actually settled in quite well. Saying that, they were the plants I was least fond of.

I've decided, at any rate, that it's time for a re-scape. This one is far too much maintenance, thanks to loaches, and only looks its best for 6 hours after I've redone it. As I work in a bar, CO2 equipment is not hard to come by, it just may take a little while. So, that's the plan. Invest in a few more easy to maintain plants until I really get the picture, then rescape with Aquasoil Amazonia, a full CO2 system, and some more interesting plants. My fish will be living in a big (properly cleaned) water butt with appropriate filtration until all of the ammonia from the soil fades (the loaches a little longer, until everything's grown in.)

Thank you again for all your help. It's clear that with my fish I'll have to be selective about plants, and I welcome any more guidance.

Best,

-Ashley

 

[JamieB]

You really don't need to re-home your fish if you can do daily water changes, this will be enough to keep on top of the ammonia.

 

[Marc1t]

You really don't need to re-home your fish if you can do daily water changes, this will be enough to keep on top of the ammonia.

I wouldn't risk it! Aqua soil produces a massive ammonia spike when first introduced its designed to kick start the biological filtration during a "fish less cycle". One other point about aqua soil from my experience. It takes a long time to clear its really frustrating lots of water changes & lots of plants & lots of patience & it will go absolutely crystal clear with time trust me. & your plants will love it. Introduce your fish when ammonia nitrite levels are clear.

 

[JamieB]

Not in my experience and I'm sure its been disproven on here many times before that its not as severe as it's made out

 

[Andy Thurston]

Not in my experience and I'm sure its been disproven on here many times before that its not as severe as it's made out

high nitrates being harmful has been disproved on here many times, high ammonia is a different story all together.
while my unplanted clown loach tank was cycling, with fish in , it was a lot of hard work keeping up with water changes to remove ammonia to keep within acceptable levels and there was no aqua soil adding extra ammonia either, just food and fish
juvenile clown loaches are very sensitive to ammonia and I would recommend not having them in the tank while aqua soil is still leeching it. Don't take the risk especially if you have a safer tank for them to live in.

 

[Marc1t]

high nitrates being harmful has been disproved on here many times, high ammonia is a different story all together.
while my unplanted clown loach tank was cycling, with fish in , it was a lot of hard work keeping up with water changes to remove ammonia to keep within acceptable levels and there was no aqua soil adding extra ammonia either, just food and fish
juvenile clown loaches are very sensitive to ammonia and I would recommend not having them in the tank while aqua soil is still leeching it. Don't take the risk especially if you have a safer tank for them to live in.

Totally agree exactly what I was trying to say. Though I have no experience with clown loaches I do know they are sensitive to ammonia.