Swollen Guppy

[jameson_uk]

Just noticed a guppy which looks like it is swelling up. I had this happen to another guppy a couple of months ago and I tried not feeding, giving peas, daphnia... To see if it was just bloated but nothing helped and he died.

Any ideas on what this might be?

 

[oscarlloydjohn]

It's obviously not carrying fry because it's a male. If you look at it closely, can you see "pine coning"? It's basically where the scales stick out and it looks like a pine cone.

If it does, the fish could have dropsy which is usually a sign of poor water quality or other issues. Are any other fish showing the same symptoms?

Do you have any test results you could post?

Oscar

 

[Keith GH]

Jameson

I also notice his tail is in very poor condition, then there plants that do not look very healthy at all.

I fully agree it looks very much like a water problem.
Can you post a detailed report on all your testing results and how they were done.
Water changes what percentages and how often.
Filtration what are you using plus how is it cleaned and how often.

Keith

 

[Tim Harrison]

Looks like generalised oedema aka Dropsy. It's not a disease in itself but rather a symptom of an underlying problem. It's often seen in fish with TB, for example. If it's got to the stage where it's causing oedema, recovery is unlikely.

 

[jameson_uk]

Will attempt to do more when I get home tonight but...

Can't see pine coning.
No other fish seem to affected (but another guppy went this way about eight weeks ago)
50% water change every week.
Filter is an eheim 600 that feeds a spray bar that covers half the tank and the other half is a spray bar fed from a 500lph powerhead.
Filter media was cleaned three weeks ago and was pretty clean (I had hoped cleaning to every eight weeks before this).

Tail got quite poor after I added them and they have been getting better. I think the flow was a bit much for them.

Plants in this part of tank were previously behind a large it of driftwood and suffered from poor flow. I had left the java fern leaves as they were growing plantlets and there is relatively good new growth.

Bacopa is behind a big bushy crypt I think is suffering from poor flow.

I have been trying to adjust flow (albeit last change was a couple of months ago and I have been monitoring whether things are changing).

I will test water later but I don't expect to see any ammonia or nitrite. I always thought guppies were pretty hardy and if their were water issues I would have expected to see this in the sterbai Cory, black neon tetras or otos first???

My thoughts are either they are stressed by the flow (although they do seem to be able to position themselves behind ornaments / plants when they want to) or something like TB.

 

[Keith GH]

jameson

No other fish seem to affected (but another guppy went this way about eight weeks ago)
50% water change every week.

I would do a 30-40% water change twice a week

Filter media was cleaned three weeks ago and was pretty clean (I had hoped cleaning to every eight weeks before this).

I always cleaned my filters once every 4 weeks usually first Sat or Sun of the month using the old tank water.

Just checking are you using any Carbon?

Can you also post a full inhabitants list.

Keith

 

[PARAGUAY]

Unfortunatly most guppies sold in shops are from Asia fish farms and not as strong or the beginers fish they used to be intensive,inbreeding hormone feeding as led to weak fish. Providing as Keith says all your other fish are ok as your water quality and feeding is ok if you really like guppies getting from a society or guppy breeder might be your best bet.

 

[jameson_uk]

jameson


I would do a 30-40% water change twice a week


I always cleaned my filters once every 4 weeks usually first Sat or Sun of the month using the old tank water.

Just checking are you using any Carbon?

Can you also post a full inhabitants list.

Keith

I have a pre-filter which gets cleaned weekly and probably helps with the filter. Last time I cleaned the filter it was relatively clean. No carbon in use.

I have
19 black neon tetras
9 sterbai Cory
7 Otos
4 guppies
8 Amano shrimp
4 nerites

I didn't massively want the guppies but my 18 month old insisted

 

[alto]

. I always thought guppies were pretty hardy and if their were water issues I would have expected to see this in the sterbai Cory, black neon tetras or otos first???

While this may be true of wildtype guppies, most guppy strains are line (in)bred & it’s not uncommon for guppy stock to be raised with considerable exposure to various medications

Declercq et al. demonstrated the in vitro multiple resistance of F. columnare strains originating from ornamental fish toward several clinically important antibiotics, such as quinolones and tetracyclines

Columnaris is considered fairly prevalent among guppy stocks and this fish’s symptoms (fin erosion, edema) are not inconsistent with F columnare infection - transmission increases from dead fish so it’s best to remove infected fish from the main tank before death
(obviously any infected fish act as a disease source also while alive)

Additional water changes help significantly in limiting F columnare infection/mortality rates - low organics, cooler temperature, soft acidic water all reduce bacteria “infectiveness”
Some fish species are just more/less resistant to this disease (unfortunately giuppies seem to be in the lesser resistant group)

 

[alto]

guppies but my 18 month old insisted

Your kid’s got good taste

 

[Keith GH]

Jameson

I assume you only have male Guppies. If all your water parameters are OK looks like your guppies were not the best of health when you bought them.

The other concern is some of your plants do not look very healthy at all. This might be clue if its connected to the guppies. If it's the case it could be a water issue.
The Java Fern might not be connected if the conditions are all OK for it and its not planted in the substrate. Obvious question are all the conditions perfect for the Java Fern to grow healthy.

As soon as you post a full water report will be OK or a major concern.

Keith

 

[jameson_uk]

Would say that said 18 month old is the reason I haven't got parameters yet but I have a Seneye so have some to hand even though I am not at home.

Temperature is 24.6°C
pH is 7.44 (goes up to about 7.8 once lights have been on)
NH3 is reported as 0.012 ppm (has always been about 0.01 ppm since I got the device which I guess is background levels).

Not tested but GH has always been 12 and KH has always been 5.

Will try and check NO3/NO4 levels if I manage to get two minutes.

Do 50% changes every week using a python and treat whole tank with prime.

I dose 15ml of homemade all in one ferts each week after water change (
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm)

 

[Keith GH]

jameson

NH3 is reported as 0.012 ppm (has always been about 0.01 ppm since I got the device which I guess is background levels).

It should be "Zero" all you have to is find out why you are getting those readings. Get a full test done not using the "Strips" your LFS should be able to do it for you.
The Seneye its only good if its giving you accurate readings and the only way to test it is to do a full test using a high quality test kit.

I would also do a full test on your water supply.

Over all you have a concern all you have to do is find it.

In the mean time I would do two big water changes a week and, only feed 50% every second day always use a measured amount not its just a pinch.

Keith

 

[Matt @ ScapeEasy]

Seneyes always read a very low value like this rather than zero I think?...

 

[jameson_uk]

jameson

It should be "Zero" all you have to is find out why you are getting those readings. Get a full test done not using the "Strips" your LFS should be able to do it for you.
The Seneye its only good if its giving you accurate readings and the only way to test it is to do a full test using a high quality test kit.

I am waiting for Clive to chip in about high quality test kits

I believe the API test I have is a salicylate test as it has two bottles? This should then measure free NO3 rather than TAN? The lowest non zero value is 0.25, 20x higher than the Seneye is showing and this has always shown as zero before when the Seneye has had a small value.

I would have thought that you actually cannot have zero ammonia as it must exist in the water for some time before being absorbed by plants or eaten by bacteria? I am sure this background level (which ok have always assumed is only vaguely accurate) is normal but just won't register on normal test kits?

Water change day so will be doing a big test, clean and water change shortly.