• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

T5 to LED

What about these for a 4ft tank.
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/un...-universal-4-tube-120cm.html?___store=default

4 tubes (T5 HO) will give 20,000 lumens (using Arcadia T5 tubes).

I have the 92cm version and with all 4 tubes on plants grow (and pearl) like made.

I actually have an iQuatics unit now but the length of the tubes prevented me being able to go 54w. I'm going to remeasure and look at this though. The only thing I need to look at is the mounting as I have a oak lid on my tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My Oak 4x2x2
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/index.php?threads/My-Oak-4x2x2.39418/
 
Yea I was worried about the height of the tank with the LEDs. The main reason for the swap apart from the running costs is that my current setup leaves a dark gap at the edges of the aquarium so I have had to place 2 LED strip lights there that I had before. I also prefer the look of the LEDs with the shimmer you get on the water.
/

The biggest 'disadvantage' with LED technology is the 'lack' of standardisation. LEDs vary wildly in performance and application.

So you need to cut through the marketing c**p ("Patented Dense Matrix LED™ technology" - yes, that Kessil site is a marketing wonderland) and focus on the fundamentals. In a semblance of order, I would look at - actual output (in lumens), effectiveness, efficiency and aesthetics. I take controllability as a given for LEDs (and is still the main reason I use them rather than fluorescents) - but many low end suppliers still don't provide even basic dimming functionality.

Output

I'm guessing your current 4 * 39w T5s will be producing around 12000 lumens of output. You'll be losing a little of that to reflector inefficiency - but that applies to virtually any reflector/lens based system - be it LED or fluorescent - so just ignore it.

Coincidentally extrapolating up from one of my tanks, I get that same figure - so I would suggest that as the starting point and maybe increase to 15000 or more for extra headroom. Of course, if you go LED, you can adjust down from there to any level you like.

So you'd need roughly 3 of the Beamswork units you mentioned before to get to that level. Feasible but probably not the best solution:)

Effectiveness

By this I mean the ability to direct those 12-15000 lumens of light to where they're needed.

Most 'regular' LED fixtures have a spread of about 120-130degrees. This 'encourages' people to place those fixture close to the surface of the water to minimise light spillage and maximise the amount of light entering the water. This gives a good spread of light throughout the tank, including upper and lower levels - but that spread also means you lose more light from the sides of the tank.

(As an aside, anyone with one of these units will confirm that the spread is actually closer to 180degrees but the light output drops off towards the extremes - as far as I can tell the manufacturers calculate the reported spread based on the angle at which the light output has dropped to 50% of its peak.)

Other units, such as the Kessils and Orphek, use lenses to focus that light. This is typically either 60 or 90 degrees for freshwater/planted tanks. These have the advantage of minimising light loss/spillage (although again, no lens is 100% efficient) and providing a concentrated cone of light that penetrates well. So minimal light loss but at the expense of poor light spread - worse at the surface where there will be significant areas with poor coverage and still not ideal at the bottom, where you will have circles of light, areas of dark - and a limited ability to remedy that with multiple sources.

You also need to differentiate between the Kessil type units with multiple LEDs focused into a cone (i.e. like a spotlight) and other units (Orphek?) that use individual lenses for each LED - spread is less of an issue for the latter types.

So you need to take a view on spread versus penetration (yes - that's a bit of a simplification!).

Efficiency

As Ian has already mentioned, you can easily buy low end LEDs that are less efficient than fluorescent technology. Your current T5s consume 156watts at about 75 lumens per watt - and the 54w tubes Ian mentioned can drive that up to over 90 lumens per watt. The best LEDs currently available on the market will easily give you 150 lumens per watt. I could build you a system that would give you the equivalent 12000 lumens for 80watts - and it's always worth remembering that's not just a saving in power costs, the flipside is a marked reduction in heat generated - which can be an issue for many people.

As a gross generalisation, the lower powered, individual LEDs are less efficient and LEDs that run at up to 3 watts each will be more efficient. (Many top end LEDs can be run at higher power than this but they run less efficiently and are harder to cool). If it isn't explicitly stated, you can usually deduce from the specs what type of LEDs any unit is using.

Aesthetics

Mostly just focusing on the shimmer effect that you like. It's unlikely a couple of hundred low power LEDs are going to give you that effect as there are so many small light points. For better shimmer, think smaller number of higher powered LEDs or the tight cone provided by something like a Kessil unit.

I don't have much interest in light spectrum - I think it's a huge red herring. Pick cool white, neutral white or warm white and be done with it:)

and of course - do you need the great looks of a Kessil unit (and the cost it entails) when it's going to be hidden under an oak hood?

All told, I'm not entirely sure if any of that will help.. but food for thought perhaps..

Regards, Mark
 
Instead of trying to justify using t5s on efficiency grounds how about a little discussion on its other advantages? I mean.. efficiency isn't what's making people buy kessils or giessemanns let's be honest...
 
They are so easy to build. Just stick on to the housing and wire. My xml2s here are rated 170-180 lumens per watt.

But why replace your T5s? I would just train a couple of gooseneck spotlights on the dark areas and get your shimmer.

a37301f78fc47350fb31fc500fbeb582.jpg
 
The difficult part is actually deciding out of all the gazillion different colors and sizes out there and how you're going to lay them out.

As you can see I'm just adding them all. (Who got da dense matrix now kessil?)
 
Rapidled, ledsupply, steve's led.. there a tons of places. Just google diy led. My aluminium housing cost $40 from ebay if i remember and my cree leds cost between 50cents and $1 and my drivers cost $20.. and i got 30000 lumen worth of leds. Definitely do that if you wanna save $$
 
Wow that's a pretty in depth explaination Mark, thanks. You mentioned about building an LED unit, is this an easy option or have I opened up a whole new can of worms?

Well - I'm biased when it comes to DIY LEDs, having built my own units for all of my current tanks. Running count is 5 with another in the works.

If you're interested in that route, I find it's best to think about them in a modular way - heatsink, LEDs, driver(s), power supply and controller. If you chose each piece of the puzzle carefully then you'll have the flexibility to upgrade/modify/reuse elements as needed - and maybe more importantly, fixing problems is so much easier. You can combine the power supply and driver into one unit but separate units gives you more flexibility. A controller isn't necessary at first and the whole thing can be run from a simple timer.

My original build is detailed here:-

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-cree-led-retrofit-to-old-hood.36983/

Many other designs are available:) That build has been working without issue for almost 18months and I run it at 60%. It runs cool (even at 100%) and is pretty efficient.

Scaling that up for your own needs would look something like:-

30 Ohmite SA-LED-113E heatsinks ~£56
These work out surprisingly cheap and don't weigh too much either.

30 Cree xm-l2 leds on stars ~£105
Run at 1000ma will give roughly 450lumens each if running cool, for a total of 13,500 lumens and 90watts power consumption.

3 Meanwell LDD-1000H drivers ~£15
So you would run 3 banks of 10 leds.

48volt 100watt power supply £20-50
You'll need a 48v volt supply and 100watts minimum. If you drop to more readily available lower voltage supplies, then you'll need more drivers and fewer leds running off each.

Once you've added something to mount and house the drivers and other odds and sods, you're looking at spending £200-220. That gives you a well spec'd build. You can reduce the costs in many ways. If you can source some material for the heatsink locally, you can knock a chunk off - but remember a 4 foot slice of heavy duty heatsink is going to weigh quite a lot:) There are plenty of cheaper LEDs - but I think xm-l2's are still the most efficient (I may be out of date here - but a quick google search didn't turn anything else up). If you're willing to shop around you can pick up power supplies at very good prices.

The driver and heatsink prices are from mouser.co.uk and I buy my LEDs from an eBay seller called 'ledbloke'.

There are a 1001 different options for controllers - probably a discussion for another day!

Something I would definitely look at for your tank is to add some lenses to say 1/3 of the leds. This would give you a good mix between coverage and light penetration. Personally I've never needed to use lenses (don't have a deep tank these days) but it should be relatively easy to do.

Any questions - feel free to ask. There are loads of details I've skipped over...

regards, Mark
 
Most 'regular' LED fixtures have a spread of about 120-130degrees.

(As an aside, anyone with one of these units will confirm that the spread is actually closer to 180degrees but the light output drops off towards the extremes - as far as I can tell the manufacturers calculate the reported spread based on the angle at which the light output has dropped to 50% of its peak.)

and to prove the old maxim of 'you learn something new every day' - this is called 'Full Width at Half Maximum' or FWHM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_width_at_half_maximum

It is commonly used to specify the spread on led lenses/optics.

There are plenty of cheaper LEDs - but I think xm-l2's are still the most efficient (I may be out of date here - but a quick google search didn't turn anything else up).

I am a little out of date - so for the benefit of anyone searching the forums:)

The Cree XP-L series are currently the most efficient. These peak at over 200lumens per watt at low current/low temperature - but a more typical output is around 155-160 lumens per watt.

They are also a physically smaller LED so they are available as '3 up' packages - 3 LEDs in series on one star. (which can be useful for high output or compact designs).

The downsides are they are (even) more expensive and availability is more limited - with the cool whites more common (presumably as they are the most efficient).

Regards, Mark
 
but I think xm-l2's are still the most efficient
I'm experimenting with xlamps now myself because i'm tired of wiring so many leds all the time. If only those stars were a big bigger I would love to be able to squeeze an xlamp and couple of violet / lime green xpgs and a fan onto it to make my very own kessil.
 
Thank you guys for talking about this in the right time, you guys made me save 200bucks I almost bough a LED lighting thinking this will resolved my problem.!:banghead:... :eek:
Ok.. but I am still confused on witch light should I do I already have a T5 HO with 4 bulbs and my aquarium is 48”/60 Gallons, my problem is that the light is not reaching all the way down to the substrate and I they don’t perl my plants like babytears and helferi don’t progress after couple of weeks my babytears starts flying up to the surface and my helferi just melt if I move them they do fine. now according to your guys discussion I have to have enough PAR and Wattage so the lights can hit the bottom plants and they keep growing but the thing is my aquarium high is 20” I was told that (4 T5) should be more than enough but my bottom plants they dont survive, so I don’t know what else should I try, if anyone have any suggestion…
 
have you tried looking at other things, like your flow? are they getting enough fresh co2 enriched water at the bottom?
 
Yes i do i even bough a circular water pump plus my filter i have a canister so i have plenti water flow, and my CO2 checker is green every were i put it.
 
Try bumping up co2. Most of the time it's possible to push it until the drop checker is greeny yellow or just yellow and won't bother the fish. Put your drop checker at the bottom right next to the carpet and make sure there's some surface agitation so excess co2 is able to escape.
 
This is what you are aiming for with your drop checker directly above your carpeting plants, shown below (ok maybe not so yellow).

8267e0b6-3643-41e1-9177-2a535b2c801b_zpsa7d34f0f.jpg


Provided you have sufficient surface agitation to provide oxygen and pearling plants to provide more oxygen, the fish don't care, as can be seen in this photo.
 
Back
Top