Why can`t I grow Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis

[Quetzalcoatl]

I have tried, numerous times to grow Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis successfully but fail miserably each time. I am determined to nail it as my new scape will consist of a large lawned section. I have looked at other alternative foreground plants as an option such as Echinodorus tenellus, Glosso, HC but still favour the LB as I prefer the shorter blades than the Tenellus will produce. I have posted a link so you can see the look I wish to achieve.
http://www.tropica.com/layouts/some-experience/the-bridge-of-moss-(225l)/description.aspx

I`ve read about flow, and Co2 dissolution and have addressed the problems the best I can but still the LB refuses to grow well for me.
I have been trying to grow it in a sand substrate, with no additional substrate nutrition! Could this be the cause for my failure, or could it be down to other factors such as inadequate lighting, lack of ferts, or just a lack of knowledge? 😳

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated guys, I want to prove to myself It can be done before I jump straight into a new scape and have it fail, big time.

My tank is 1010Lx50Hx41W 180ltr.
Osram 2x39watt 6500k Daylights T5 - 7hrs (15.00-22.00)
Co2 diffused with UP-atomizer - (30ppm)
Dosing EI -
MACROS - Fri,Sun,Tue -
KNO3 - 3g
KH2PO4 - 1g
MGSO4 - 7g
MICROS - Sat, Mon
TNC Trace - 1g
(Rest Wed,Thurs)
Filtration - Eheim 2026 - TetraTecEx700
Koralia900

Thanks.

 

[andyh]

LB is a difficult plant to grow well. When you say you "fail miserably" what does that mean, no growth? turns to mush? algae ridden? etc

I suspect that you light intensity isn't sufficient to get the compact lawn effect. Also ensuring that there is sufficient flow over the lawn is important (carries CO2 to your plant)
The best person to ask would be Mark Evans as he successfully grew it in one of his scapes, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

Andy

 

[nry]

Strange how some grow well for one and not others for differing plants!

LB grew like wildfire when I had some - covered almost the entire base of my 30x60cm though it did take a bit of starting off as it was a bit of a slow grower initially. I had a sand substrate over Tropica substrate with EI and CO2, 2wpg, didn't have any issues overall.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I had a feeling that lighting intensity may be the issue, but after researching mainly on this forum I was under the impression that adding extra lighting is Insane!!!!!! Instead I should be addressing all other aspects before purchasing that shiny new luminaire I have my eye on? (156watts-3.9wpg)

My experience with LB is that it grows great for me below substrate level, the runners are healthy, and plentiful, it is when the plant penetrates the surface, within weeks it is overrun with what I think is BBA.

I am aware that this is more often than not a Co2 Problem so I have adjusted my set up to try and alleviate this deficiency by positioning my spraybar on the back wall, and pointing my powerhead straight at the area in question. Co2 seems to be readily available at substrate level. I have even increased my Co2 to a regrettably high level, and as a consequence suffered a few fatalities 🙁

My conditions sound very similar to yours nry. 2wpg, Flourite capped with sand, Co2, EI. What were you dosing, just the usual suspects?

 

[Bobtastic]

I had a feeling that lighting intensity may be the issue, but after researching mainly on this forum I was under the impression that adding extra lighting is Insane!!!!!! Instead I should be addressing all other aspects before purchasing that shiny new luminaire I have my eye on? (156watts-3.9wpg)

I'm sure that The CEG will come over and recommend a Negh'Var-class cruiser reactor powered luminaire that you can nuke your tank with. 😉

I have no experience with LB, so can't really comment. I can say that I have been lead to believe from our peers that we should be able to grow pretty much anything with a couple of T8s and the right balance of Co2 and ferts.

 

[Mark Evans]

It's a tricky one. It took a couple of goes with it, to find out what it likes.

IME, lower light, seems to favour this plant. I maintain, that it can be treated almost like an Anubias. It'll grow in shade pretty well.

If dosing is not so good, GSA will develop on older leaves. To trim it, simply mow it like a lawn.

80% of the foreground is LB





another tank, which i did.



middle-left...a small clump of the stuff, in shade, did really well.

 

[ghostsword]

I have grown LB and it is one o my favorite plants, but to have it thick and healthy you need to keep on top of the co2 at the bottom or grow it on shallow area.

Too much light and you will have an issue with algae, especially bba. Too much flow directed at it and you will have the co2 passing the plant too quickly.

It is a balance to strike.

Try also the Mauritania version, much more forgiving.


.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm sure that The CEG will come over and recommend a Negh'Var-class cruiser reactor powered luminaire that you can nuke your tank with.

at Bobtastic, I`m more of a Stargate than a Star Trek kind of guy though.

Seriously though. Thanks for all the replys,(My first post aswell!) it is appreciated. Looking at those pictures of yours Mark it makes me even more determined to keep on trying. Stunning tanks!

Would we agree then that my lighting is not the issue here then, more likely my dosing is whats at fault? I have only recently started EI, it could be that my doses need to be increased? Should I be adding anything extra other than KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4, and TNC Trace? My water is soft here in Cheshire East. Could that factor into the equation?
I have had a spare Tropica pot floating around the tank for a few weeks now, It was a little experiment to see how it reacted closer to the light. It has continued to grow, and looks extremely healthy. This is the reason why I was questioning the lighting?

The Mauritania looks like an interesting alternative, thanks Ghostsword. Will investigate further. However, I`m a stubborn man and do not like to be beat.

Thanks again all. 😀

 

[viktorlantos]

As i know Mr. Amano had only a little success with this plant in the past til he started to work with Aqua Soil Amazonia. This plant require a nutrient rich substrate. I can't confirm this but we have great success with Amazonia for sure.

Mark and ghostsword is right this plant not require too much light.

But once this feels ok on your tank this will be so dense that there will be other issues (BGA after a while)





I guess Tropica choosen Tenellus for some reason. Brasiliensis is not the plant you can trim later on. But Tenellus is always ready for that. So on a long term a tenellus carpet is more manageable.

But as we all love the challenges at least once you can try this plant. Will teach you many things.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Hi Viktor. Thanks for the information.

Do you have any experience with Tenellus? I was concerned that the plant would grow too high with my medium lighting, and would not stay close to the substrate. It seems that it is easier to manage than the LB though? Unfortunatly my budget for the rescape will not stretch to using ADA Amozonia, I was looking going down the Akadama/cat litter path?

The BGA issue you mention. Would this be due to poor flow at substrate level. Is this not true of most carpeting plants?

I will take a trip to my LFS this weekend and see if he can get hold of Tenellus, and Mauritania. I will experiment with both before making a decision?

"Lilaeopsis mauritiana is an easier plant to grow and less light demanding than its counterpart, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis"

"Echinodorus tenellus has become a favorite of hobbyists not only because its easy to cultivate, but also because its tendency to grow red tips under high intensities of light"

So it seems they are both better options than the LB, but which one is best....There`s only one way to settle this?................FIGHT.

 

[ghostsword]

Tenelus is one o my favorite plants, very easy to grow and to keep. You trim LB and some strands turn yellow and die, you trim tenelus and in a week you may need to trim again.

The way I like LB is growing on a bed of moss, as a clump, this way there are no dead spots, or emersed.


.

 

[Bobtastic]

I'm sure that The CEG will come over and recommend a Negh'Var-class cruiser reactor powered luminaire that you can nuke your tank with.

at Bobtastic, I`m more of a Stargate than a Star Trek kind of guy though.

A Ha'tak mothership then? I'm growing Tennellus atm and it is always sending out runners. I am trimming it at every water change (weekly) to keep it to the length that I want.

 

[clonitza]

I've just wanted to tell you guys that Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis doesn't really require nutrient rich substrate, I've picked this plant a couple of months ago from a guy who uses only plain gravel in his tank with loads of CO2 and moderate lighting. 🙂

Mike

 

[oldwhitewood]

I have never managed to grow the plant successfully, I can't help feeling the Novea-Zealandiae would be easier, that seems to be the plant Amano has used in terms of Lilaeopsis.

 

[Johno2090]

I have no problems with LB grows like a weed. I have my lighting at moderate levels and high doses of co2 and nutrients.

Have loads of stuff Going spare, and I've just given it a second trim so will see if it develops any yellowing.

 

[BigTom]

My L.b is spreading steadily in my 30cm cube with 11W lighting, Aquasoil II no CO2 and minimal dosing, for the record.

 

[Westyggx]

How did you get on with growing this?

 

[Aquadream]

From all that I can see in this tread most seems right as recommendations, but one thing is missing.
IRON.
Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis is an Iron hoover.
LB does not require nutrient rich substrate as long as there is enough Iron together with all other nutriens in the water column. NO3 should to be at least 2ppm, PO4 at least 0.2-0.5ppm.
The mentioned amount of light in your set up is enough as intensity, but a bit on the short side as cycle. 9 - 10 hours light cycle would do better.
Along with the esatablished dosing routine add Iron 0.5ppm, 3 times per week.

LB can do well in almost any light conditions as long as the Iron is in place. I have grown LB in light intensity from estimated 30 to 150 PAR with no algae issues at all.

 

[viktorlantos]

Great capture Georgi

We never dosed this much iron, but we're using EI fert model on this.
I still love this plant. One of the best low maintenance plant which i do recommend to my clients.

Let me add a few pic too to have it on record. This is both from the same tank which is 1 year 8 month old now.





some fish eye 😀



and this is how it looked yesterday... trimmed a few weeks ago so this is not the best form yet



If i remember correctly in the past 20 months we trimmed this plant like 5-7 times totally. Could be less too but at the end my partners liked better in it's trimmed form so the did this more frequent.

I love the busy shape of it just like in Aquadream's tank above.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Blimey this is an old thread brought back to life? In answer to Westy`s question, I never had any degree of success unfortunately. I faired better with the Mauritiana variety but tbh the results were still not great. In the end I went for the easy option and planted Parvula. 😳
After the recent input though I could be prepared to have another crack at it. I have some fe spare so.......

Along with the esatablished dosing routine add Iron 0.5ppm, 3 times per week.

Excuse my stupidity but to achieve this quantity in a 180ltr how many grams/tblspoons should I be adding. Maths isn`t my strong point?