Would this idea work?

[Simon]

I'm planning a new discus tank. This tank has inspired me and I want to replicate something along these lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnD0HuY_K9c


The tank will be 4x2x2 with a sump. I'll use low lighting, a couple of T5's C02 and probably Tropica substrate under pool filter sand.

I have the facility that I could have this tank on a constant drip water change, approx 10% per day. Would this be viable with C02 and some EI dosing? I actually thought of dosing small amounts of ferts with a pump througout the day.

The plan is to keep easy plants that deal with the temp OK. Wisteria, Hygro, Swords, crypts and some narrow Java fern.

 

[Jose]

Of course it could work but what are its pros and cons?

Manly ditritus will accumulate since water will most probably be coming out of the top. I think this is the main point to look out for. If you do a water change yourself its not only about the % of water extracted but also where that water comes from in the tank and what you take out with it. If take some detritus out then that wont contribute the the bad substances dissolved in the water. I bet after some weeks this can be noticeable.


I guess you are doing it to save yourself the hassle of water changes right?

CO2 Id expect would be quite hard to dial in and you'd waste quite a bit.

 

[Simon]

How about if the water change was on a solenoid and happened after lights out through the night?

I would probably still do a vac and small water change weekly anyway.

 

[Jose]

How about if the water change was on a solenoid and happened after lights out through the night?

I would probably still do a vac and small water change weekly anyway.

I guess this could work. But then is it worth the hassle? There are a few things that can go wrong since its a few more layers of complexity now. If youre up for the challenge or not is up to you. Can you tell me the pros you see for this?

 

[Simon]

I guess this could work. But then is it worth the hassle? There are a few things that can go wrong since its a few more layers of complexity now. If youre up for the challenge or not is up to you. Can you tell me the pros you see for this?

Sure🙂 I attempted this before. Set up a nice 80 gallon tank and spent 3 months letting it get established and allowing the plants to get going. It actually looked pretty good....until the discus went in. With the increase in bioload and nutrients it wasn't long before our old friend Mr Algae came knocking.
My thinking with the new tank is to try and give the plants, although easy ones, a good opportunity and keep the nutrients in check with the trickle waterchanges. Maybe I have the thinking wrong. But if the plants are getting a low level dose of ferts and c02 during the day and the tank gets a release of the nutrients at night, would it give me the tank that I want and a fighting chance to keep algae at bay.

 

[Jose]

Well I think youre putting all "nutrients" in one bag. Actually too low nutrients (specially N and P) have been shown to induce algae growth because plants suffer. You do ought to keep organics/ammonia in your tank low. Ammonia is taken care off by the filter and good oxygen levels. Organics shouldnt build up if tank is healthy, good feeding habbits, water changes etc.
A nutrient rich substrate is going to be the thing that helps you most here, just in case you let your NPKs bottom up too much.

 

[Rahms]

How much were you changing before? Continuous (or multiple) changes waste more water, so you need to change a larger total volume to get the same reduction in waste. eg. five 10% changes are less effective than one 50% change. Its easiest to show by example:

100ppm of substance A. 50% change leaves 50ppm.

100ppm with 10% changes leaves, over 5 days:

90ppm
81ppm
72.9ppm
65.6ppm
59ppm

Also, the waste accumulates over time (its not 100ppm on day 1) which actually means the 10% per day would be less effective since it's operating over lower values... until a few weeks in when it accumulates to above 100ppm! but removing more waste in later weeks because your tank is dirtier isn't much of a bonus.

People do manage trickle changes (I'm sure there's another discus keeper on here who does it). But I think its wasteful and you'd be better off making a system for smoother bulk changes. With a sump you can leave a powerhead in place for pumping water in and out. Can just have your RO go to a container beneath the tank and then it's just a case of turning the right pumps on in the right order.

And yeah, what jose said: consensus here is that nutrients aren't going to cause algae. Organic waste can, which I suppose is what you meant!

Not sure I agree that you'd have CO2 problems at all, the bulk of the water is largely unchanged, you'd just have to make sure you aren't removing water from where you inject (i.e. removing the CO2 before it disperses)

 

[Jose]

Not sure I agree that you'd have CO2 problems at all, the bulk of the water is largely unchanged, you'd just have to make sure you aren't removing water from where you inject (i.e. removing the CO2 before it disperses)

Agree, water taken out is quite small.

 

[Simon]

I am lucky with where this tank will be situated. It's my office which is constructed in one half of a double garage. Just the other side of the stud wall I have water point, mains drainage and power. I can easily have a 50 gallon container or prepared water just the other side of the wall and out of sight. Plumbing the tank into the drainage...and a drip feed constant change will also be hassle free. Oh...and no water meter!

 

[jagillham]

Drip does not work with EI. The 50% water change comes at the week end to reset the levels.

Follow my most recent thread, I'll be posting up very shortly my automated system for weekly changes.

 

[ian_m]

The 50% water change comes at the week end to reset the levels.

Actually that is not the main reason for 50% water changes, you can go for many many weeks adding ferts before it becomes an issue ie NO3 ppm in regions of 1600ppm, I ran at 400pmm after a pump failure no problem. Though 50% water change does reset ferts to a known max level.

The 50% water change removes the waste organics that if built up will cause algae. This is the main reason for 50% change.

 

[Simon]

Drip does not work with EI. The 50% water change comes at the week end to reset the levels.

Follow my most recent thread, I'll be posting up very shortly my automated system for weekly changes.

My guess is that the discus would benefit from a nightime drip W/C and I could still do a 50% each weekend.

Do plants absorb ferts in the dark?

 

[jagillham]

Guess I understood wrong!

Is there a benefit to the bulk change of 50% then rather than smaller weekly ones?

 

[Rahms]

Is there a benefit to the bulk change of 50% then rather than smaller weekly ones?

yep read my post above!

 

[ian_m]

This is why auto water changers won't work.

The picture below is the detritus vacuumed/syphoned off the substrate and plants from my 180l tank during a 50% water change. All off this stuff was in the plants, on the plants, in the carpeting plants, in little piles under the wood, trapped in corners etc and vacuumed up by me. None of this was from the filters. This amount only exists due to the tank running high tech.

A continuous water replacement system would not shift this stuff.


I vacuum/syphon into a yellow bucket, before pumping out onto the front lawn so I can see things I shouldn't have sucked up...like fish...