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Plants lacking in what?

Bertie

Bertie

Member
Joined
18 Apr 2013
Messages
489
Hi All,
I am having problems with new growth on some of my plants.

For instance, on my Hygrophila mini (in foreground) the new leaf is coming out a very light green, and then the middle is becoming darker. This of course maybe completely normal.

I have another plant that I cannot recall the name of, with a similar growth pattern (back of tank). My saggitaria platyphylla, also in the foreground, has some translucent leaf(although appears to be growing well apart from that).

I have some Echinodorus Reni where the new submerged leaf is getting holes, and my Bacopa amplexicaulis seems to be falling apart.
All other plants are fine;).

I have two T5 45w tubes, one (rear tube) is daylight 9000K and I have just put a new "colour" tube at 6400k at the front. I have reduced the lighting period to 7hrs and have pressurised co2 on 3hrs before lights on and lime green, and goes off 1hr before lights off. I did have it at yellowy green at lights on but fish were struggling quite quickly and I lost two fish before I reduced the co2. I have good flow/distribution and all plants are pearling well.

I am dosing 3x rec dose of a complete fertilizer from one of our sponsers and rec dose of Liquid Carbon.
I have recently (one week ago) done a complete re-scape and changed over to eco-complete substrate.

Is it just because I have done a tank makeover and I need to wait? Or up my Fert even more? At the moment (famous last words;)) I have no algae that I can see.
 
Hello,
The symptoms you describe are consistent with poor CO2. You should disable one of the bulbs if possible until you solve the problem and review your flow rate and distribution technique.

Cheers,
 
Hi ceg,
Thanks for that. I have the co2 up as much as possible without killing more fish. I will re-adjust my powerheads to see if I can alter flow any more.
As I say, all plants appear to be pearling well, and all plants are moving well in the current. I do not have any obvious signs of algae but will block off the front tube with a reflector turned the wrong way and see how it goes.
 
Hi Bertie,
Are the leaves that are damaged the original from when the plant was first flooded? If so then just prune them off and be done with it. if new leaves come in without showing any additional damage then you are OK.

Also you'd want to make sure that damage isn't being caused by fish or snails.

In any case, reducing the light relieves pressure and allows the plant to focus on repair.

Cheers,
 
Hi ceg,
Yes they are on the leaves that have recently been submerged. The tank has just recently (one week) been completely re-scaped i.e. cleaned out and new substrate added but I suppose there may have been snail that survived all that. I have blanked one of the lights off and see how it goes.
Will cut the damaged leaves when I do my daily water change in the morning.
Thanks for your help.
Bertie
 
Ok, As I mentioned Saturday I had blanked off my front tube and that left the rear T5 45w colour tube on and today I have noticed algae on my foreground plants! I am assuming that this is just a coincedance? I have kept the co2 as was and I have kept the fert at 3x rec dose. I have removed most of the affected leaves. I suppose it is just a case of waiting now?
 
Hi Bertie,
Yes, it's a coincidence. You need to identify the foreground algae in order to better assess.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,
Thanks...I will post a photo when my grandson comes back from work (my dslr is playing up) . It appears a "dirty brown" colour but due to lighting maybe just green. It certainly does not look like when I had bba and rubbing the leaves between my fingers does not remove it. It is on some of my saggitaria subulata and a little bit on my hygrophila mini. When I have taken a photo I assume it would be best if I trimmed the leaves?

Thanks
 
I am afraid this is the best I can do at the moment in regards to photo.
Awi36XR.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/Awi36XR.jpg
 
Looks like it could be a type of GSA, which is due either to poor CO2 or poor PO4 or both. You can add more PO4 but you also have other symptoms of poor CO2 so it's likely related to your flow distribution. Until we can see images of your filter outlet and powerhead installation it's very difficult to troubleshoot.

I've edited your post to show the image in-line.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,
Thanks
At the moment I am using a "complete" fertilizer from one of our sponsers but Intend to shift to EI when that runs out. I admit that I reduced my co2 last week, as I lost two fish, and to be honest, I do not know whether it was because the water temp increased by 2 - 3 degs because of the heat, or the co2, or a combination of both.

I will increase co2 rate again this morning but I did notice previously that 3hrs into the lighting period a few fish, such as my dwarf rainbows, go to the surface to get some oxygen? How long after lights on would it not matter if I had to turn the co2 off?

As for flow...I will post a photo of filter outlet and powerheads as soon as I am able, but all plants are swaying in the "breeze", and I use a UP inline Atomizer for co2. At the moment the powerheads are each set at 800lph and face the same way as the filter spray bar. I did have one of them at a higher rate but that seemed to uproot my new plants quite easily so I reduced back down to 800lph but as I say all plants are swaying very well.

Thanks Again for your welcome advice.
 
Hi Bertie,
The term "Complete" is often a marketing term and is "completely" meaningless unless we know what's in it. If it doesn't have N, P, or K then it's not complete. Without a link to the product page it's not possible to determine what's inside, but you should have a list of ingredients. You should always try to know what's in your fertilizer mixes. It must always be listed on the package label.

It sounds as if you've don all you can as regards injection, liquid carbon supplementation as well as distribution and flow rate, so it's surprising that there should be these symptoms.

The toxicity mechanism of CO2 is NOT that it displaces Oxygen in the water. Rather, it prevents the fish from expelling CO2 from their bloodstream out through the gills. CO2 lowers the Oxygen carrying capability of the blood inside the body and at the same time prevents exhalation of the CO2.

What you will have to play with is the timing of when the gas goes on and off. You can reduce the injection rate but turn the gas on earlier before the lights. Normally, when you have good flow and distribution but yet you experience the combination of the fish suffering toxicity plus plants suffering CO2 deficiency, this indicates a timing issue.

As I mentioned in previous posts, you really need to take pH samples at regular intervals before and during the photoperiod in order to determine the effectiveness of your injection.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,
Thanks for that. I am using TNC complete and the make up is; Analysis:- 1.5-0.5-6 and N-1.5%.....P-0.2%...K-5%...Mg-0.8%...Fe-0.08%...Mn-0.118%...Cu-0.002%...Zn-0.01%...B-0.01%...Mo-0.001%
I will start adjusting my timings from today.
Thanks again for your very helpful advice.
 
OK, thanks for that. As you can see, that's just a trace mix. With numbers like N at 1.5% and P at 0.2% there is very little doubt that you need to be more serious about a Macro mix. Plants need 1000X more N than Mg, for example, and about 100X more P than Mn. Are you certain about the Fe content? Any trace mix should be mostly Fe (0.08%?), yet there appears to be more Mn than Fe.

This mix appears to be basically useless. Probably more appropriate for a non-CO2, low light tank - which you are far removed from. Sorry.

Cheers,
 
bummer! :rolleyes: I cannot afford to get EI kit until the end of the month.....I was going to get my IE from TNC but now wonder if I should get it from somewhere else! Also I have very hard water in this location(Hertfordshire)..would I need any Mg?

Sorry just to add that those figures (have double checked) of the make up are correct or at least that is what is listed.
 
I get my ferts from APF. They do a starter kit with the mixing bottles provided. I add magnesium to my mix as, from what I see, it is not mentioned in the water report. The hardness is due to calcium. As I'm only a few miles away from you I suspect you are in the same boat.
 
Hi Dave,
Yes I have just ordered a starter kit from them and with the 10% discount. Good to hear about the Mg as I was wondering about that. How is their delivery time?

Also as I do a 10% - 15% water change daily and a 50% once a week, how does that affect the dosing regime?
 
Bertie said:
Also as I do a 10% - 15% water change daily and a 50% once a week, how does that affect the dosing regime?
Click to expand...
Doesn't. The idea of EI is there will always be an excess of nutrients every day, so growth will be light limited (or CO2 if not done properly). The 50% weekly water change to remove unused nutrients as well as plant and fish waste.
 
Hi Ian, Thanks for that. Another thing I can stop worrying about!;)
 
I wouldn't worry about plant nutrient overdosing either, I had a pump jam on and dump 1litre of EI macro into my tank (180 litre) increasing NO3 ppm to over 250ppm, absolutely fatal to fish and will produce masses of algae, according to fish shop trying to sell me "nitrate away". Luckily the fish shop hadn't told my fish or algae, the fish who were more concerned "where is the food" :D. Just did a "generous" 50% water change mid week when discovered the problem. Fish all alive and no algae issues either.
 
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