A new start - Chaos

[Fiske]

So I'm starting a tank again after a 10 year hiatus. Originally I intended to go low tech, but then I went and got myself a used 45P and an Aquasky 451. That thing is bright; so my reasoning is I better dose ferts and inject co2.

Here's what I have for now (will update with pics later):

ADA 45P
Aquasky 451
Eheim Experience 250T
Tropica Growth substrate + a few handfuls of Amazonia; capped with fine gravel.
Some nice spiderwood.

Tentative plant list (the ones with ! are the ones I'm sure I want):
Cryptocoryne becketii!
Hydrocotyle tripartita!
Utricularia graminifolia!
Hemianthus callichtroides 'Cuba'!
Hygrophila 'Araguaia'!
Pogostemon erectus!
Rotala rotundifolia 'bonsai'!
Potamogeton gayi
Heteranthera zosterifolia!
Moss!
Anubias nana!
Staurogyne repens!
Limnobium laevigatum
Salvinia

The floaters will be added mostly to suck up excess nutrients in the start.

I hope to pick up plants and start planting today.

I have a co2 set from co2art.co.uk on the way, and will pick up a bottle of co2 in 2-3 weeks. Until then I hope to start up with heavy doses of Easy carbo, since I'll have no critters for the first month or so. I'm guessing large daily waterchanges for the first week or 2 is recommended. Lights will be on 5-6 hours in the beginning.
Should I dose ferts from the get go?

Am I setting my self up for a monumental failure?

 

[Manisha]

Good luck with your new set up - a shorter photoperiod in the beginning & floaters are a great plan - they can help with reducing intensity too ☺ I heard UG & Cuba can be quite tricky but haven't tried myself. If I was trying my first high tech, I'd maybe try these later onwhen I was a bit more confident because of this but otherwise plants look good!

 

[Fiske]

Well.
I went and bought the plants, and planted them. Filled the tank with water, dosed som Easycarbo, started the filter. Then lay down in fetal position and cried since all the HC and Utricularia promptly lost their 'grip' and started floating.
I'll try to resettle them tomorrow when I do a wc.

Sorry for crappy unedited phone pic.

Those 1-2-grow packages is some newfangled #%&?!&#. I'm OG and used to plants in pots, or loose stems. This was serious science-fiction type stuff. Not really sure if I like the concept. Not all the packages were in the best condition though, and I had to postpone some of the planting til tomorrow.

 

[Fiske]

Day 2:
So. I did a ~50% waterchange, reseated some of the HC and UG, and tied some spiky moss to the roots. Since I don't have a suitable set of pincers, planting is done with my fat chubby fingers (they're not, but it feels like they are elephant feet stomping about). How do you guys not blow a gasket?!
Added some EasyCarb, 2 mls, which should be between 2-3x normal dose. Is that too much? Still wondering when to start squirting Tropica ferts. So far all info points towards waiting a week or 2... (?) The Tropica Growth Substrate, and the 4-5 handfuls of Amazonia will be enough until then? Lights are on 5,5 hours. Temp ~20-21 C.

Some of the water this time around was rainwater, which I plan to use quite a bit. My tapwater is hard (17-18 dH), but otherwise fine. It is only chlorinated in emrgency situations, which are very uncommon btw. I have never used any waterconditioners in my life as an aquarist, and never saw the need. (Apart from the hardness; danish tapwater is normally of excellent quality).
Lessons learned: Tie moss to roots before submerging; the roots have a bit of buoyancy left (only soaked for 4-5 days after a quick boil), and the maneuver sent one of the Anubias afloat. Gah. Get a pair of pincers, stat. Carefully research what is up and down on UG: Do they actually have a top and bottom :O? Find some simpler way to conduct waterchanges (that do not involve money :O)

I heard UG & Cuba can be quite tricky but haven't tried myself. If I was trying my first high tech, I'd maybe try these later on

My thought on the carpet plants: They are the only 'Advanced' plants in the setup. They will either make it, or not. If they do, GREAT! If not, well; what did I expect?

In other news: My co2art set is on it's way Now I just need a paycheck so I can buy a bottle of fizz. And some additional suckers for filter I/O.
Everyone is asking why I don't have any fish. One suggestion from a much younger relative was 'Get a piranha!'. Lol.
Also need to research some emersed growth options for my plant leftovers, have some left that didn't get in there.

Crappy phone pic, warts and all.

 

[alto]

great start!

Since I don't have a suitable set of pincers, planting is done with my fat chubby fingers (they're not, but it feels like they are elephant feet stomping about). How do you guys not blow a gasket?!

Tweezers/Pinsettes are a must with the 1-2-Grow type (tiny) plants - it's very difficult to plant individual stems or small clumps with fingers AND have the plantlet stay firmly anchored

Fortunately most 1-2-Grow are quite happy to float a few days while you sort out some tweezers - anything that works is fine, aquarium marketed tweezers just tend to be easier to use (be careful not to pinch delicate plant stems too hard - difficult to do with aquatic pinsettes but may be more an issue with some other types of tweezers)

I'd not overdose with liquid carbon, especially with 1-2-Grow (ie baby) plants, some plants are sensitive to liquid carbon (think melting leafs) & over-dosing with liquid carbon is not at all the same as overdosing with gas CO2.


Hemianthus callichtroides 'Cuba' is the only plant on your list that I feel really prefers a CO2 (dissolved gas) environment , especially during start up

Utricularia graminifolia is an "advanced" plant that can be quite tricky, even people that have great success with it, can suddenly have a complete failure with the next attempt ... allowing it to float for now may be the best thing (certainly better than over-handling through repeated attempts to get it "planted"), once you're able to source some tweezers, plant again & then just let it find its way (not unusual for it to seemingly disappear & then re-emerge if left undisturbed)

Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' is a much easier ground cover to establish & maintain

Recently I've been experimenting with low tech plant set ups
30cm cube tank
Tropica Growth Substrate + Tropica Soil Powder
1-2-Grow plants
Filtered Sunlight - it's actually been heavy cloud & rain for the 2 tanks set up ~2 weeks ago, I've also not done any water change due to lack of time (& they seemed to be doing fine )
Temp 22C, soft water
I don't fertilize during the first couple of weeks with 1-2-Grow plants (if I were running a high tech system with high light & high CO2 etc, I might change my mind on this)

You might find Tropica App helpful
If you observe plant melt, careful removal and/or daily water is recommended

My co2art set is on it's way Now I just need a paycheck so I can buy a bottle of fizz

If you have "Sodastream" available locally, CO2Art makes an adapter for these canisters (perhaps email & see if it can be added to your order at reasonable cost)

Not all the packages were in the best condition though,

hopefully the shop offered some discount, they really are amazing plant value when in good condition

 

[Manisha]

Very nice! Super attitude to carpet plants too, if we don't experiment then where can we learn? Guess the 12 grow are good value & you've no worries of snails & algae? They also survive in situ without planting directly for longer. Potted plants are better for beginners as they are more resilient to less than optimum conditions so a lot comes down to personal preference

Wise words from Alto, planting tweezers are a MUST!

 

[Fiske]

great start!

Thanks.

If you have "Sodastream" available locally, CO2Art makes an adapter for these canisters (perhaps email & see if it can be added to your order at reasonable cost)


hopefully the shop offered some discount, they really are amazing plant value when in good condition

I've just decided to go with a 2kg canister straight away, it really is the most economic solution. Bottled CO2 is crazy expensive here, but the cost is mostly on the bottles themselves. First refill on a 2kg bottle and it will have earned itself re. the smaller alternatives.

I didn't really notice anything re. plant condition before I got home. The H. zosterifolia had some blackened lower leaves (which I removed), but the rest was ok. Speaking of zosterifolia, that thing has taken off like a rocket. So no worries there.

Got some food/kitchen tweezers and they help a bit. Hard to work with I feel.

By way of an update:
I am now on day 4. Yesterday was consumed by work, so didn't get to do any WC, or anything else really. Did one today instead, and dosed a bit of Easycarb. I've cut back on my dosing of this so I'm still slightly on the high side, but way less than before. Haven't had any melting plants, algae or other catastrophies. Some hazy fungus type thing is forming on the roots, but this seems to be normal. Did move a few plants around, since I was unhappy with the placement. Pulled all the Stauro up, and did a better job of planting them.

Zosterifolia is clearly growing, fast; seeing some growth on the moss I think, and the Salvinia too. Might have a bit of growth on the Pogos, tripartita, Stauro and Araguaia but it's very subtle. UG and HC is hanging in there, no deterioration but not much happening either. Given that everything is still sort of low tech, short photoperiod I guess it's a good sign they haven't just died off. I have quite a bit of both left in a flat bowl in the windowsill, so looking into growing these emersed.

My set from CO2Art arrived. Looks to be good quality, the bubblecounter does seem a bit cheap though. Can't wait to use this.

 

[Fiske]

It's been a week since set up.

Day 8: Finally got some CO2 going. 2 kg bottle was a tight fit in my cabinet. Had to angle the reg+solenoid a bit so the plug for the solenoid could fit. Then had to angle the whole thing the other way so the bubblecounter wouldn't hit the 'roof' (which is a drawer). Then hooked everything up, set the timer and eagerly awaited for the injecting to begin. Running an UP diffuser on the outlet, at a fairly conservative 1,5-2 bps, which seems about right. DC is a nice limegreen.
Lots of microbubbles everywhere, and as far I can see they get almost everywhere.

Cabinet is a bit of a mess, and there's not enough room in the plugbar:

Well, it works.

Here's an fts:

Some nice progress all over the place: H. zosterifolia growing A LOT. HC is going good, and had some nice pearling today. Actually, I had that piece on the dw (above the dropchecker), which was a floater I just wedged in, pearl a couple of days ago, before I started injecting. Most of the UG seems to be giving up, but some of it looks like it will be holding on. It'll be interesting to see whether the CO2 will make a difference here. Lots of light green shoots on moss. Tripartita, Pogos and Araguaia seems to be a bit slow on the uptake.
Felt reckless deciding to live on the edge and up light to 6hrs. Stopped with easycarb. Still haven't dosed ferts...

Haven't tested a single parameter yet (apart from dropchecker).

Seems like a bladdersnail snuck in with some of the potted plants; and is now multiplying I don't mind snails, actually kind of like some of them, but bladdersnails are at the bottom of my list. I will get an Anetome if it gets out of hand. I also dumped some Asellus in there from a local pond, to see if they went legs up. Much later I saw one of them munching the white goop on the driftwood. Go Asellus! Seriously considering picking up some cherry shrimps in a day or two.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I also dumped some Asellus in there from a local pond, to see if they went legs up. Much later I saw one of them munching the white goop on the driftwood. Go Asellus!

I like Asellus, they are just shrimps without good PR.

cheers Darrel

 

[Fiske]

Hi all,I like Asellus, they are just shrimps without good PR.

cheers Darrel

I agree, I like them too. At least one of them makes regular appearances, there should be 2 more; only spotted the smallest a few days ago once. I might scoop a few more up and throw in there, I just have to literally handpick them: There are loads of critters in that pond I most certainly dont want, eg. unidentified nematodes, leeches, damselfly/dragonfly larvae etc.

The PR machine works though, I picked up 5 cherry shrimp some days ago. Rather smallish 1.5 cm, fun little guys. The number of prawn cocktail jokes since then best forgotten.

By way of an update:

Day 13:
I had to take some rather drastic action on something that could evolve into a serious problem: The Pogostemon and H. tripartita wasn't growing much, if at all, the zosterifolia, although growing profusely, had a lot of damaged lower leaves (it had this from the get go). All this plant mass wasn't really helping out so I did the following: Pogos and tripartita went out. These were potted plants I bought that never really took off, instead it more or less acted as a mechanical filter. I'll pick up a 1-2-grow tripartita and try again with that. The zosterifolia came up too, I then trimmed the healthy tops, replanted them and discarded the lower parts. I've also planted some Rotala rotundifolia I had left over from the initial planting. And moved another Anubias once more. Scooped out my weekly handfuls of Salvinia too. Most of the UG was more or less melted so out it went The HC is growing great, and I might have to trim it soon.
Some of the substrate below the gravel got pulled up during this manoeuvre, but I think I kept it minimal. I hope all shrimps accept the changes (they really liked the mulmy parts).

Still keeping up with water changes, but reduced to about 20-25% every 2-3 days, as far as work allows spare time. CO2 at 1-2 bps. Not dosed ferts yet. I still have a rather unsightly mass of white fungusy stuff on the roots, and the shrimp isn't doing (enough) about it IMHO. Also having quite a bit of diatoms.

I'm having thoughts on my clean team. The 5 shrimp are hard at work, but might not be enough. If the tank was bigger I'd just get a good group of Otos, but as it is, if I get 3-4 Otos I'd have to skip something else. My thoughts for fish in this tank has been revolving around a pair or trio of Dario dario, and possibly a handful of O. woworae. I am a 30 km drive away from just buying some Otos, and I need someone to talk me out of it. But they would really help...

I'm having thoughts on my flow too. I'm using a shepherds hook outflow, and judging from the CO2 fizz, getting good distribution. But the hook is rather jet-streamy for lack of a better term. A couple of cms below the outlet shrimp poo solemnly rests on zosterifolia leaves, happily unaware of the raging currents that rip Salvinia to bottom levels at the other end of the tank. Would a lily pipe outlet give a better all over water movement? What are the downsides, if any? I don't think a spraybar is applicable here due to the damn tree someone dropped in the middle of my aquarium!

Also have some slight surface film, but I'm not sure why (although, with an open top tank I can have some wild guesses). Not to keen on having to get a skimmer...

Let's end with a pic of one of my new friends:

 

[Fiske]

Day 20:
Pic from saturday.
Fresh in from the LFS. Boraras naevus, one of the clearwater microrasboras (and no, although they had loads of very nice looking Otos, I resisted the temptation )
These guys can't even eat the frozen daphnia I bought . Luckily I bought some flaked food along with that.

Since my replanting in last episode, despite my carefulness, I'm afraid I lost 2 shrimp. They are no more than 1.5 cms, and I tried to examine the plant material thoroughly, but alas...
I had noticed the LFS had some RCS listed, so I decided to add to the existing colony. Turns out when I got there, the shrimp they had was Super Red Sakura something or other. They look very nice, like tiny boiled lobsters colourwise, and they are still cherrys, so I bought the 3 they had. Turns out they are all female. Of the shrimp I have I'm only reasonably sure one is male, and another female, the last could be either (I'm leaning towards female though, based on colouration mainly. This one is a bit in the shade, and photo is crap, so colours are not clear. My inlaw has a decent DSLR, I'll see if I can borrow that.

I think I got all bladdersnails eliminated, by vigilance and deft fingers. Hopefully...

Everything is chugging along nicely, no huge algae breakouts; a bit of diatoms and a teeny bit of green algae. Some of that might have been caused by some heavy melt on the Anubias, so I decimated that, whilst saving the Asellus that were feasting there. I never expected to have issues with Anubias though. HC grows alot, so does moss and the zosterifolia grows so fast I can almost hear it! Stauros, araguaia and crypts is starting to get established and new growth is visible. Some of the last Utricularia seems to be hanging on, but we'll see.
I still have a wee bit of issues with surface film, some of that might stem from me fiddling with CO2 and filter inlet postion regarding surface agitation: I don't want to gas my livestock, and I want the water to be well oxygenated, so I have been trying out different ways to get it right. So CO2 levels hasn't been rocksolid these last few days. Also, I probably need to clean my filter...

 

[Fiske]

So; trouble reared its ugly head.
Turns out some of the new Boraras has white spots, probably ich. So far I have spotted at least 2 affected individuals. I don't have a second tank, and frankly, I don't have the funds for one right now. Also, catching fish and/or shrimp to separate them would mean pulling apart everything which I'm not to keen on. After some googling it seems like eSHa Exit is shrimp safe (doesn't mention Asellus though ). So I'm probably going to do the following starting tomorrow:

1. Aquire eSHA Exit.
2. Do a largeish waterchange and raise temp to about 28 C
3. Run a 3 day course of Exit pr product instructions.
4. Cross fingers.
5. Repeat steps 2-4 for about 12-16 days.

Apart from killing my inverts, what are other possible issues I could run into with this? What are my prospects? Anyone done a lot of eSHA dosing in a shrimp tank? I could REALLY use some input here, guys.

 

[Eduard18]

Hi there ! Sorry to hear about your problems ; I have used eSHa

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Fiske]

Hi there ! Sorry to hear about your problems ; I have used eSHa

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk

In a tank with shrimp? Did it treat the ich?

 

[Eduard18]

in my RIO 300 for some white stuff that plagued my rasbora harlequins ; I don't remember what kind of eSHa exactly, because there are several ; I have dosed it as recommended and what I can tell you is that while it didn't save the fish it didn't kill the shrimps - Amano and red cherry - nor the snails - neritina

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Fiske]

Week 7:

An update on the ich-situation: Firstly, I probably brought this on myself by doing waterchanges with water that was too cold. So, lesson learned I guess. Secondly, on the first day of treatment all but one white spot had disappeared, so if it was ich I probably started the treatment at the right time. Here's what I did: I did a large wc, with temperated water, and had already been raising the tank temperature over a couple of days to 28C. I then dosed Esha Exit according to manufacturers instructions, in my case 6 drops. Then 3 drops each of the following 2 days. I then did another large waterchange, dosed 6 drops, and then again 3 drops each of the following 2 days. Then I stopped treatment, did a large wc, and slowly dropped temps back to 23C over the following couple of days. The results are in:

1. Esha Exit is Asellus safe: I spotted 2 dead on the 3rd day of treatment, and haven't seen a single one since. Whether it is a result of the medication or the raised temperature, I don't know...
Edit 17.01.2017: I've spotted plenty Asellus since then, even some so small it suggests that they have procreated.

2. Esha Exit is shrimp safe. So much so that I spotted 2 berried females on the last day of treatment, one of which is now my new avatar.

3. As for the fish: As I mentioned all white spots had disappeared when I started treatment, with the exception on one on the tailfin of a fish. Upon closer inspection it seemed more like scarring. It would indicate that the tomonts had dropped off and entered the reproductive state. This was the reason why I stopped treatment after only six days.

This sounds like a complete success, however; on the 4th day of treatment I did spot one fish with a spot. It also seemed like it had hurt itself physically. It had a large hematoma on the body, and some bit (skin?) was dangling off the abdomen, and it wasn't looking too well. I had to make a quick decision and promptly put it to sleep (ie. crushed it with a brick ). I've also had one jumper dried up on the floor. And one has disappeared. On the fish side the tally is 6 remaining, all looking well. As for shrimp, one of the Sakura red died a few days ago, probably of old age (they were fully grown when I bought them); I don't attribute it to the medication since it was well after it ended. Maybe the raised temperature made it speed through retirement...

So, now all is well in wonderland you ask?

Well, yes and no: Now I have loads of algae, mainly diatoms and some GSA, + an assortment of other green algae. The reasons are manifold. Some weeks ago I tried to move my diffuser to the filter inlet instead of the outlet, just as an experiment because the fizzy drink look did annoy me a bit (I have since moved it back). So although I still get the same 'readings' on the dc, for instance the HC pearled much less and the diatoms seemed to get bolder. It also seemed that the raised temps during the ich-situation spurred some algae on. Finally, it really is an layout issue. My wood is to big... No, seriously: I can't get my hands in the tank and clean up behind the roots, for instance. I'm scared to get a siphon in and blindly start siphoning out mulm behind it. Also the zosterifolia really is unmanageable in such a small tank. I absolutely love this plant, but I did a heavy pruning, and a couple of days later it had just doubled in size. And it does hamper the flow quite a bit. I will have to quit my dayjob just to control this plant.

So, I think I got my co2 controlled now anyhow, since moving it back to the outlet, the HC (which is growing well btw, despite diatoms) is again pearling nicely, and all other plants are growing well too. But I have to sort out the underlying problem. I could probably do a black out, but I guess algae will return if I don't change anything. So I will have to do a rescape, which as a minimum will mean removing some of the wood, and removing most of the HZ, and replace it with some other plant. I would have preferred not to do this though. I can use some input on how to do this; livestock in or out?

Anyway, here's a berried Sakura Red:

 

[Fiske]

Happy New Year everyone!

Shortish update here since I weirdly enough doesn't have to work today.

Week 10½:

Boraras are lemmings. One by one they left the premises in an upwards direction. I am now out of fish.

I reached a number of 4 berried shrimp total. 1 died, another disappeared and is presumed dead. The two remaining hatched their eggs, and one of those died a week or 2 later. After much thinking about it, I guess I narrowed the cause down to molting problems caused by overfeeding shrimp pellets. These are strictly rationed now. The remaining adult female Sakura is berried again.

And I have approximately 10,000 shrimplets @ about 10-15+ millimeters.

As for flora:
Diatoms are completely gone. I do still have GSA, GDA and some nasty slimy threadalgae growing mainly in the moss near the light. I got a bit frustrated and tried a 3 day black out. No dice.
I then trimmed the moss heavily, and got rid of some of it. I believe I see the shrimplets feasting on the remaining algae, so here's me hoping they could keep it down. If not the moss will be removed.

HC has carpeted nicely, and has strands of Utricularia growing a lot in there. Also has UG growing at surface level in some moss. The rest of the plants are growing well too, only the araguaia seems to continue stalling. Bit stumped there.

I'll try to get some pics up shortly.

 

[Fiske]

Just a picture post. I'm gonna do a bit of rounding here and say this is just around the time tank has been going for 3 months. I think I'm getting the hang of this phonecam, so pics should be a lot less desaturated; OTOH they might lose a bit of detail.

A couple of full tank shots:

Here's some of that UG growing half emersed, in the moss at the surface (excuse the mess, I actually did a small trim before these pics):

A bit of an unusual angle (frogs shrimpsview):

 

[Fiske]

Sooo...
My LFS had some Dario for a while, so I finally decided to go get some. Also, they apparently had some Betta coccina in a recent shipment, that piked my interest. (Sort of need to pass the suggestion of a second tank for bettas through High Command, so I just wanted to eyeball the bettas).
Turns out as I got there they only had 1 (one) D. dario left, which kind of turned me off. I then went around the store looking for the bettas, with no intention to buy them right away.
Finallly I spotted the sign under a tank with a whole bunch of fullgrown Danio kyathit (I think, largish danios anyway). Completely undecorated tank, except the white(!) gravel. There, on the bottom was a bunch of black sticks. Or rather, a bunch of more or less lethargic bettas.
...
I wasn't going to buy those bettas, I swear.
But I did.

As you can see, they have gotten a bit more active after a few hours in my tank. Normally I wouldn't do rescue missions, but these were wild caught specimens, and everything about the whole scenario just rubbed me wrong.
Not sure they would eat dry/frozen food I bought a bunch of white mosquito larvae, hoping they'd eat some of these. Not the most ideal food since they seem to end up on the sponge on the filter intake very fast. Maybe I can get some daphnia, or would bloodworm (chironomidae) be good?
My tank really isn't ideal, CO2 injected, open top, too much flow (I lowered that quite a bit), and quite bright in some places, but way better than what they were coming from.
I'll start negotiations with High Command...

 

[Fiske]

4 bettas were out and about today (spent all my free time watching (for) these guys). Think a 5th made a shortish appearance. In the tank they look almost black, until a staring contest starts. Have had quite a few of these "who-blinks-first-is-a-loser" fights today. They are eating, which is good, they seemed somewhat starved. The white mosquito larvae is probably not the most fantastic food, but easy to get once I get hold of a net. I'm a bit in the sticks, so I have to go quite far to get live food; or make/catch it myself. Artemia is another possibility I'm considering. Would kill for daphnia/cyclops

Other than that: lovely fish!
They have tons of personality and a very appealing demeanor. They way they go through a number of colourchanges almost instantly is amazing. They are still very timid, and if you passed by you'd think there were no fish, until suddenly

Borrowed the inlaws digital camera, and here's some very decent pictures (of my dirty glass ):