Imagine What It Would Be Like To Be A Pet Fish

[Smells Fishy]

Reading the thread regarding if it's cruel to keep fish in tanks bare bottom and devoid of anything got me thinking again so I thought I would share how shot through are fish must feel at times. Imagine this, the room your in now is your fish tank and then suddenly a great big hand crashes through the sealing, waving what is essentially a big hoover around, lifting and rearranging things around and just generally causing chaos. You look out your Windows and there's a huge face staring at you or a kid banging on them sending earthquakes through your life. We are so lucky that we are top of the food chain so its never going to happen to us un less aliens capture you and decide to take you home with them. I can't help but think sometimes what it must be like to be a pet. To me it basically means you have no control over your life. Ok a South American Leaf fish is going to be a picky eater and only except live food but things like that are exceptions. A fish can't stop you from doing a water change, what will is you not having any dechlorinator or a syphon. I ponder can a fish comprehend its daily mundain life? Arapaima might dew to the size it can reach, it must have a good grasp on life but is a Neon tetra going to, probably not. The Arapaima, if it was to ever be kept in captivity (it is) has a few advantages in understanding its life, first of all its going to be a wild caught fish so it knows this fish tank\public aquarium which is now it's home isn't natural to it or to its liking so is likely to question it a lot more, secondly since its such a large fish its brain has the potential to grow larger than most of the fishes total lengths we keep, so it definitely has the brain power to think the whole thing smells fishy. Fish like the Arapaima or a Mbu puffer i sort of cringe in aw when I see videos of them in captivity because it's just not right for them. If you watch cory's videos from Aquarium co op you know he has a Mbu and I think it's tank is something like 6ft L 2ft H 3ft W and that's a massive tank but personally if I owned Hank he would be in a 20 foot long tank but I'm not super rich just like pretty much everybody else so that's why you never see ideal tanks. Last year PFK did an article on fw puffers, cover of the mag was a Mbu and I think they recommend a minimum of 495L for it. A 5ft tank just isn't right for a real pet fish like that, doesn't matter how well it treated. Due to its brain size it wouldn't surprise me if its capable of all sorts of mental problems like depression, a Neon tetra isn't going to be depressed I'm fairly sure of that. When it's fully grown its brain is probably no bigger than a pin head. That's partly why I'm drawn to bigger fish since you get a vibe that they don't just swim around aimlessly, they are a lot more methodical and interactive, Oscars are a good example. Anyway this has turned into a early morning ramble so I'm going to post this and leave it there.

 

[zozo]

Hahaha, i thought about this a lot, especialy in the later days of my anglers carier.. The time i didn't catch anything i used for thinking.. Often thought, what wtf am i actualy doing and what does this mean for the fish..

So i tempt it to eat a snack than it gets a hook pulled into it's lip and its dragged out fithing for its life taken forcefully out of it's natural element into an alien atmosphere where it is sufocating. It is touched, the hook pulled from its lip, draged around, weight, stroked while trying to escape flapping like mad, scared for it's life. Sees light flashes all over from taking pics. Than it is throwen back into it's element. Completely stressed out, exhausted, dizzy and probably frustrated and feeling raped.

Then it gathers up again with the school of family and friends.. It tells his friends "You never guess what happened to me!?" "Im abducted! By Aliens!!"
And with the fear still in its eyes it tells the story.. All friends and family laughing and pointing at it and saying "Cmon you idiot! Aliens do not excist, chill out man, you need a shrink" And so nobody believes it and there it is, raped, hurt, stressed, frustrated and nobody to turn to. Only thing it can do is go on with its life and find food and hoping there isn't a hook hidden in it whit an alien at the other end.

And so i came to the conclussion, i'm the idiot, angling aint fun and above all aint a sport.. All other anglers i tell this to, also confirm i'm an idiot. But i threw all my rods and gear into the corner and never touched it again.

Still i keep fish in tanks.. But here i notice if you repsect their needs and be gentle, they get to know you.. In the first weeks it's a bit strange and scary for them.. But after while if you know what you are doing they all come and eat out of your hand. Some fish are also remarkably inteligent, i kinda guess they probably all are equaly as intelligent, there are several sp. just showing it more than others. After all we can't know what goes on in their tiny brains.. Maybe the ones not showing are thinking F... off idiot! And is just not interested to interact with you.. Others are and come looking when i clean the glass and hang around the hose when i do a water change and even show excitement and playfull gestures, speeding away and comming back, like they are playing catch me if you can, the same hierarchical game they play with eachother. I have some goldfish already for many years, they know me and my hands so well i do not need a net to get them out of the water. I do it with my hand.. If somebody else comes up, they immediately se it's not me and hide away.

Only thing you need to respect is they have eyes and ears and a nose.. And a very special lateral line sense organ and sense organs in their mouths.
All these organs are highly sensitive and they react to minute differences, things we probaly never even think about and probaly can't imagine what it feels like having such an organ..Since we can not know what they realy feel or what realy goes on in that tiny brain. We are beter off assuming their emotions are at least equal to ours if not more sensitive. I put my bet on the later..

Look at us, scientist state we only use 10% of our brain mass.. And then we are braging about our big brain? Practicaly it aint so big at all with this 10% only. See what disasters we achieved with only this 10%.. Maybe a fish uses its brain for the full 100% capacity, than maybe is it's tiny brain equal to ours in relation if not bigger. Maybe we are lucky a fish yet didn't develop hands, who knows what it would come up with. Probably would come up with the idea to slap a lot of us in the face hoping for them to wake up one day.

 

[roadmaster]

Believe most tropical fishes are only slightly smarter than the rock's or plant's they hide behind.
Yes they can be programmed to recognize the person feeding them,or trained to perform tricks followed by reward , but after that, they are just fishes.
Some behavior certainly ingrained within DNA me thinks when I ponder how salmon are able to travel hundred's of miles to same spawning ground's where they were conceived.
Have caught same crappie and or Bass more than once in a single day of fishing.(one eyed,or part of fin missing).

 

[zozo]

but after that, they are just fishes

And what does this idea all justify?

Btw if a creature has a sense of hierarchical relationship with members of their sp. It is more than just beeing.

 

[roadmaster]

I mean that attempting to place human qualities on cold blooded fishes is delving very close to fantasy/wishful thinking.IMHO

 

[rebel]

Holla, interesting reading here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

 

[BubblingUnder]

"Imagine What It Would Be Like To Be A Pet Fish"
1) Safe from predators
2) No famine food always available
3) Appropriate water quality
4) Possible treatment for parasites/diseases

Not a bad life for a fish with a tiny brain whose only ambition is to stay alive.

 

[zozo]

I mean that attempting to place human qualities on cold blooded fishes is delving very close to fantasy/wishful thinking.IMHO

And that they have non of these qualities, is based on what facts?

I've yet not red about a device able to measure it. It more likely is based upon a simular kind of fantasy, call it scientific believe or assumptions if you wish.

 

[KipperSarnie]

Benefit of the doubt?
Surely it is better to treat a moron as intelligent than it is to treat intelligence as a moron??

 

[PARAGUAY]

This is a small extract I read from a lady talking about her Sailfin plec "recently learned to swim to the water surface and flips over belly up eats flake with the Goldfish with his mouth facing up and then returns to his usual swimming pattern". Learned this watching the Goldfish of course.Intelligent ?Got to be

 

[roadmaster]

And that they have non of these qualities, is based on what facts?

I've yet not red about a device able to measure it. It more likely is based upon a simular kind of fantasy, call it scientific believe or assumptions if you wish.

I am merely replying to the question (thread title), and offering up feeling's on same.
Have been an avid fisherman for nearly fifty year's and in my mind,,.Once you study the habit's of the fish you might be angling for they are fairly predictable, unlike human's.
I am a fish whisperer, and very much wish they could talk back,but ...

 

[zozo]

I am merely replying to the question (thread title), and offering up feeling's on same.
Have been an avid fisherman for nearly fifty year's and in my mind,,.Once you study the habit's of the fish you might be angling for they are fairly predictable, unlike human's.
I am a fish whisperer, and very much wish they could talk back,but ...

I'm merely asking out of curiousity, not trying to put a namesheild on your back or so. Just wondering what evidence a human has to underbuild his or her believe to think that animals, in this case fish do have no human qualities, whatever human qualities are. I realy do not know if they have and imho we can't yet know. Like there so many other things we just put in a box under a name and know very little about.

It even happens in out own sp. there are severe autistic people that were assumed to be completely letharchic not able to use their hands and feet properly. But when given the proper tools turned out to be brilliant savants contradicting all we think to know and leave highly decorated scholars baffled behind.

And i know about animals certain predicability, but that is not so much unlike humans.. Humans are as pridictable, if we weren't than commercials, politics and propaganda etc. woudn't work, but it does.

There is nothing wrong with beeing wrong, that is what's develpment is all about.. Science developed because they are wrong all the time. So it's a common good to assume a half truth for right to finaly, hopefully, get to the full truth. So it also is predictable that a person not actively involved in the scientific research and only scratching the surface with reading textbooks and science magazines to believe this half truth most be right, but it isn't.

In our language we have a old wise proverd saying: "The farmer doesn't eat what he doesn't know."
It reflects perfectly the human quality, to think lesser of things you do not know.

I am a fish whisperer, and very much wish they could talk back,but ...

Maybe we can't see, because we are looking at it with a wrong believe..

 

[roadmaster]

Closest I have seen to what you may wish for is from an old movie.. "The incredible Mr. limpet"
About as close as you are likely to see in the real world.IMHO

 

[zozo]

I get what you mean tho never seen the movie.. But it's not what i wish for, for an animal to be as smart and nobel as humans think they are. And i honnestly do not know what goes on in their tiny brains even if science says "nothing much". I stay nutral at this point but have my doubts or an open mind if you like to see it like that. Sience still works partialy in a kinda nominalistic viewpoint. If it can't be seen nor measured it can't be given a name and thus likely wont exsist. I know thats beter than living a fantasy.. So i rather say, i do not know and probaly never will, life is to short for that. But to me it looks like their is much more going on between heaven and earth than we can imagine. So the TT is an interesting question, which one should think about without prejudice of what is not realy known.

 

[Daveslaney]

What about Nemo?.
On the bright side least you wouldnt have to go to work hehe. .

 

[KipperSarnie]

Benefit of the doubt?
Surely it is better to treat a moron as intelligent than it is to treat intelligence as a moron??

To Quote my Quote!

 

[Smells Fishy]

Hahaha, i thought about this a lot, especialy in the later days of my anglers carier.. The time i didn't catch anything i used for thinking.. Often thought, what wtf am i actualy doing and what does this mean for the fish..

So i tempt it to eat a snack than it gets a hook pulled into it's lip and its dragged out fithing for its life taken forcefully out of it's natural element into an alien atmosphere where it is sufocating. It is touched, the hook pulled from its lip, draged around, weight, stroked while trying to escape flapping like mad, scared for it's life. Sees light flashes all over from taking pics. Than it is throwen back into it's element. Completely stressed out, exhausted, dizzy and probably frustrated and feeling raped.

Then it gathers up again with the school of family and friends.. It tells his friends "You never guess what happened to me!?" "Im abducted! By Aliens!!"
And with the fear still in its eyes it tells the story.. All friends and family laughing and pointing at it and saying "Cmon you idiot! Aliens do not excist, chill out man, you need a shrink" And so nobody believes it and there it is, raped, hurt, stressed, frustrated and nobody to turn to. Only thing it can do is go on with its life and find food and hoping there isn't a hook hidden in it whit an alien at the other end.

And so i came to the conclussion, i'm the idiot, angling aint fun and above all aint a sport.. All other anglers i tell this to, also confirm i'm an idiot. But i threw all my rods and gear into the corner and never touched it again.

Still i keep fish in tanks.. But here i notice if you repsect their needs and be gentle, they get to know you.. In the first weeks it's a bit strange and scary for them.. But after while if you know what you are doing they all come and eat out of your hand. Some fish are also remarkably inteligent, i kinda guess they probably all are equaly as intelligent, there are several sp. just showing it more than others. After all we can't know what goes on in their tiny brains.. Maybe the ones not showing are thinking F... off idiot! And is just not interested to interact with you.. Others are and come looking when i clean the glass and hang around the hose when i do a water change and even show excitement and playfull gestures, speeding away and comming back, like they are playing catch me if you can, the same hierarchical game they play with eachother. I have some goldfish already for many years, they know me and my hands so well i do not need a net to get them out of the water. I do it with my hand.. If somebody else comes up, they immediately se it's not me and hide away.

Only thing you need to respect is they have eyes and ears and a nose.. And a very special lateral line sense organ and sense organs in their mouths.
All these organs are highly sensitive and they react to minute differences, things we probaly never even think about and probaly can't imagine what it feels like having such an organ..Since we can not know what they realy feel or what realy goes on in that tiny brain. We are beter off assuming their emotions are at least equal to ours if not more sensitive. I put my bet on the later..

Look at us, scientist state we only use 10% of our brain mass.. And then we are braging about our big brain? Practicaly it aint so big at all with this 10% only. See what disasters we achieved with only this 10%.. Maybe a fish uses its brain for the full 100% capacity, than maybe is it's tiny brain equal to ours in relation if not bigger. Maybe we are lucky a fish yet didn't develop hands, who knows what it would come up with. Probably would come up with the idea to slap a lot of us in the face hoping for them to wake up one day.

Yeah I agree with you on fishing. I've never done it but I've had the opportunity and all ways turned it down. People are thinking why so judgemental then!? Well basically one day I was eating a tuna sandwich of some sort, sat in front of my fish tank. You know when you've chewed something so much its hard to swallow? Well I think that happened in that moment, it was minging, so I spat that sh1t out. After that bite it just wasn't the same and couldn't finish the sandwich. It didn't take long for me to stop eating seafood, fast forward and its been 3 years since that fateful day. It's annoying that my partner and son eat fish and sometimes it looks and smells so good but I've came so far i would feel like a div if I ate some. I suppose to me eating fish in are hobby is a bit like hypocrisy, take that statement however you want. Its not like people are eating the fish we keep in the hobby un less you live in the places they are found naturally. Fish like Anabas testudineus is eaten all over the Asia area, it's seen as a pest when really it would be a great aquarium pet, it's never seen in the hobby which is crap, i want one. Then Snakeskin Gourami and the Giant Gourami are used as food, didn't expect it tho. Probably a hundred more examples. Sometimes when I'm walking back from the beach I see people doing sea fishing and the last time I walked back I walked past some guy just looking at a fish he had just caught, it was on his fishing box in the process of dying. It pissed me off because the guy seemed fairly happy to watch this fish suffer and didn't rush to end its life, i didn't wait around to see if he did, but by the time I reached him it had been out of the water at least a minute. I felt like saying "Oi! Are you going to kill it yet or just stand around and play with it". Not my thing at all.

 

[zozo]

Yeah I agree with you on fishing. I've never done it but I've had the opportunity and all ways turned it down. People are thinking why so judgemental then!? Well basically one day I was eating a tuna sandwich of some sort, sat in front of my fish tank. You know when you've chewed something so much its hard to swallow? Well I think that happened in that moment, it was minging, so I spat that sh1t out. After that bite it just wasn't the same and couldn't finish the sandwich. It didn't take long for me to stop eating seafood, fast forward and its been 3 years since that fateful day. It's annoying that my partner and son eat fish and sometimes it looks and smells so good but I've came so far i would feel like a div if I ate some. I suppose to me eating fish in are hobby is a bit like hypocrisy, take that statement however you want. Its not like people are eating the fish we keep in the hobby un less you live in the places they are found naturally. Fish like Anabas testudineus is eaten all over the Asia area, it's seen as a pest when really it would be a great aquarium pet, it's never seen in the hobby which is crap, i want one. Then Snakeskin Gourami and the Giant Gourami are used as food, didn't expect it tho. Probably a hundred more examples. Sometimes when I'm walking back from the beach I see people doing sea fishing and the last time I walked back I walked past some guy just looking at a fish he had just caught, it was on his fishing box in the process of dying. It pissed me off because the guy seemed fairly happy to watch this fish suffer and didn't rush to end its life, i didn't wait around to see if he did, but by the time I reached him it had been out of the water at least a minute. I felt like saying "Oi! Are you going to kill it yet or just stand around and play with it". Not my thing at all.

I do not take it that far, i eat it and don't mind to hunt and eat what is catched. Killed and gutted my fair share of trout and threw them in the BBQ, nothing tatse better. Also slaughtered my home raised chickens. Honnestly i'm rather open minded, if i would ever visit a country with dog on the menu i would be the first to order. Hence in Thailand they do not eat cow, cows are for working not for eating. But fried insects are a daily snack..

But hunting an animal and catch for sport and release it again.. Aint a sport, thats cruel ammusement.. And indeed hypocryt, then be a man and go all the way, kill it and eat it.. But not tell yourself you release it again out of love and respect.. That's bull. Skinning an aminal make a coat for survival is a nessecity for some cultures, but doing it to make a statement and profile yourself in society is just cruel and beyond any respect or compassion.

Beeing honnest and love goes a long way.. What ever you do, do not lie to yourself is my best advice to people.. If you keep a bird in a cage than ask yourself what do you realy love.. The bird or yourself not feeling lonely or just having it, cuddling it and keeping it in a cage.. A lot of poeple may ask, do i love the dog or just the statement it makes on my cauch, like the car in front of the door.

 

[Smells Fishy]

This is a small extract I read from a lady talking about her Sailfin plec "recently learned to swim to the water surface and flips over belly up eats flake with the Goldfish with his mouth facing up and then returns to his usual swimming pattern". Learned this watching the Goldfish of course.Intelligent ?Got to be

This is a small extract I read from a lady talking about her Sailfin plec "recently learned to swim to the water surface and flips over belly up eats flake with the Goldfish with his mouth facing up and then returns to his usual swimming pattern". Learned this watching the Goldfish of course.Intelligent ?Got to be

Years ago when I was first starting out, i had a Sailfin plec funnily enough that did pretty much the same. I would see it swimming upside down along the waters surface sort of doing laps, it was so cool to watch. Plecs have to be one of the more smarter fish out there, no doubt about it. I suppose it was a way to entertain its self.

 

[mort]

I have many fish that are 20 years plus or getting on for 20 now. In truth most of these I no longer really want as I'd love to shut the tank down but in a weird way I don't trust anyone enough to pass them onto or want to cause the stress to them of moving. They were originally inherited from my father's tank which I took over when I was seven and so I've had them most of my live. I don't feel guilty about keeping them and believe they are far older than they would be in the average hobbyists tank.
As I've grown I've always had a fascination with nature and therefore pass this onto whatever I plan to keep. So my clown loaches live in a good sized group, I have a group of silver dollars, my synodontis and other catfish have plenty of hiding spots to suit them and not me etc. So I go by the phylosophy of environment enrichment for stimulation. This is anthropomorphism but I'd rather treat something with more respect than mistreating it.