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(NO MORE) 2,000L High tech BEAST

Since i had good succes with low dose 24/7 CO2 in my large tank ( better then trying to go high tech which led to BBA) the size of the tank might be a factor.
I am guessing the light levels will be lower in large tanks due to size (levels drop squared to distance) and CO2 will probably be in the solution longer and thus availabe longer. I didn't need special adaptions to the flow, or didn't make them at least and didn't have problems. Just couldn't use all plants, some never took hold (mayacca fluviatilis, tonina). I could grow "carpet like" plants like tenellus, sagitaria and lileaopsis, not very dense, but pleasing enough. Large swords were the best.
 
Filip Krupa said:
Echinodorus cordifolius is becoming my favourite Beast inhabitant.
Looks amazing, and grows well.
Click to expand...

That's a plant that loves to pop the surface and grow on with emersed leaves. To force it to go emersed you need to start trimming it, cutting away new youg submersed form leaves from its rosette.. This will trigger to older leaves to grow taller towards the surface. Than once it stick a leaf out of the tank it will soon wither away. But Echinodorus have a build in sensor for that. Don't cut off the first dying emersed leaves, just leave them on the plant. It will pick up that it's time to grow out emersed form leaves.

After that you will see long leaf stalks appear with a small rolled up leaves.. This leaf will slowly unfold after it is above the water line and grow bigger. The plant will entirely stop growing submersed leaves and only shoot out long leaf stalks and emersed form leaves on it. After that flower stalks will soon follow with beautifull white flowers. Flowers grow in little groups and each little group of flowers forms a new plantlet on the flower stalk.

Thus isntead of thinning out and selling its runners :) If it were me, i would keep them and force the big ones to grow emersed. Than you have best of both worlds.. Emersed E. cordifolius surrounded by a group of young submersed form pants.

I see you already have one leaf reaching for it.. It wants too.. And since it's an open top tank.. I guess that's what an open top tank is for.. Enjoy all that comes out the top..:thumbup:
 
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Edvet said:
I am guessing the light levels will be lower in large tanks due to size (levels drop squared to distance)
Click to expand...

As I understand, levels drop square to distance from a point source radiating in all directions. I think when we use LEDs with reflectors all pointing down the light loss is not that bad, even at 750mm.

Edvet said:
Just couldn't use all plants, some never took hold (mayacca fluviatilis, tonina). I could grow "carpet like" plants like tenellus, sagitaria and lileaopsis, not very dense, but pleasing enough. Large swords were the best.
Click to expand...

So far The Beast can grow anything I throw at it. Even if macrandra isnt blood red, and the alternanthera reineckii pink gets algea very easily.
I have a feeling youve tried a lot more species than me.

Agree on swords, when the traditional "centre piece" plants become background, they are mesmerising.
Actually, I managed to sell a cordifolius mother plant on the famous bidding site. I was just checking if there is any demand, got snatched 4 days in! Couldnt believe it!

Thanks
Fil
 
zozo said:
That's a plant that loves to pop the surface and grow on with emersed leaves. To force it to go emersed you need to start trimming it, cutting away new youg submersed form.. This will trigger to older leaves to grow taller towards the surface. Than once it stick a leaf out of the tank it will soon wither away. But Echinodorus have a build in sensor for that. Don't cut off the first dying emersed leaves, just leave them on the plant. It will pick up that it's time to grow out emersed for leaves.

After that you will see long leaf stalks appear with a small rolled up leave.. This leaf will slowly unfold after it is above the water line and grow bigger. The plant will entirely stop growing submersed leaves and only shoot out long leaf stalks and emersed form leaves on it. After that flower stalks will soon follow with beautifull white flowers. Flowers grow in little groups and each little group of flowers forms a new plantlet on the flower stalk.

Thus isntead of thinning out and selling its runners :) If it were me, i would keep them and force the big ones to grow emersed. Than you have best of both worlds.. Emersed E. cordifolius surrounded by a group of young submersed form pants.

I see you already have one leaf reaching for it.. It wants too.. And since it's an open top tank.. I guess that's what an open top tank is for.. Enjoy all that comes out the top..:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks zozo!
I can pretend I know what Im doing now :D

Ive been cutting these long stemmed leaves off out of fear of blocking light, perhaps I should let one plant go nuts, just as a learning experience.

Fil
 
Filip Krupa said:
Thanks zozo!
I can pretend I know what Im doing now :D

Ive been cutting these long stemmed leaves off out of fear of blocking light, perhaps I should let one plant go nuts, just as a learning experience.

Fil
Click to expand...

I bet you're going to love it!.. And the misses too.. Flowers for free and Echinodorus emersed flowers all year long, it keeps comming..

You can expect this.. And this is a E. Kleiner Bär cultivar. a tad smaller but still a big plant easily over 60cm. E. cordifolius grows even taller.

See the new young plants right hand side growing from the flower stalks. These stalks keep growing and bend over. In search for ground or water.
Once it has found this the plantlets on the flower stalk grow bigger.
dscf7314-kopie-jpg.jpg


dscf7315-kopie-jpg.jpg


:)
 
Filip Krupa said:
I think when we use LEDs with reflectors all pointing down the light loss is not that bad, even at 750mm.
Click to expand...
it stil will be squared to distance, just more of the original light is going in the correct distance. I still use a HQI giesemann unit with a good reflector ( been using it since the start, only exvhanged bulbs one).
 
zozo said:
See the new young plants right hand side growing from the flower stalks. These stalks keep growing and bend over. In search for ground or water.
Once it has found this the plantlets on the flower stalk grow bigger.
Click to expand...

Amazing!!!
 
Filip Krupa said:
The biggest luck factor that I am aware of is is my tap water. Its very soft!
Click to expand...

I think has helped as well ;) Green Aqua use remineralised RO water and UV filtration on their tanks too, which will be similar to the water that runs out of your tap, may be its not a coincidence that your both having great results
 
Hi all,
Filip Krupa said:
The biggest luck factor that I am aware of is is my tap water. Its very soft!
Click to expand...
Zeus. said:
I think has helped as well ;) Green Aqua use remineralised RO water
Click to expand...
I think you are both probably right.

I don't think hard water is <"an insurmountable obstacle"> to having a successful planted tank, but you definitely have more control when you start from a known datum, and if that datum is close to zero it makes life easier again.

You can always add solutes to water, taking them away is much more difficult. If you start at zero (RO), or have very soft water, the only nutrients in the aquarium are those that you have added.

Hardy Ornamental Nursery Stock
I'll put this bit in, it is tangentially relevant, but partially because this was where my <"academic career both started and ended">.

The "no initial nutrient datum" was what ornamental nurserymen discovered at the beginning of containerised plant growing. Rather than having a soil based (<"John Innes"> type) potting compost with an initial unknown amount of nutrients, pH etc., you could use an inert, sterile medium that had good air and water holding properties, but very few nutrients and a low pH.

Very <"white sphagnum peat">, from the upper layers of peat bogs ("<ombrotrophic mires>"), had always been regarded as of limited use as a growing medium, because it was acidic and devoid of nutrients, but now it became "white gold" because of its excellent physical properties as a potting compost for containers. You could control nutrient addition with controlled release fertilisers, and raise the pH if required.

There are environmental downsides to <"sphagnum peat"> as a potting compost and to RO <"as a water source">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
Edvet said:
Is that where the rockwool came from?
Click to expand...
Sort of, the original commercial form of hydroponics was NFT (nutrient film technique), where the plant roots were in a gully with a constantly trickling film of "water" (nutrient solution), but no substrate. This was a Chinese innovation and started being used commercially in the 1920's.

As well as the investment in the wires etc to support the plants, you need to ensure a continual flow of "water" to provide both oxygen and nutrients. This flow requirement meant that the channels (that the water flowed down) had to be on a slight gradient, and were usually arranged in a zig-zag fashion across the floor of the glasshouse. The remaining nutrient solution could be pumped back from the end of the channel and re-circulated. There are a number of issues with NFT, particularly that you don't have any reservoir of water and root drying is always a worry if you have pump failiure etc.

NFT is still used for leafy crops like Lettuce, but has been superceded for Tomatoes, Cucumber, Peppers etc. by perlite trough culture, fill and drain systems and drip irrigated rock-wool.

At some point Dutch growers realised that "Grodan" rockwool offered advantages over NFT and I would imagine that the area of rockwool cultivated crops is still an order of magnitude larger than any other hydroponic technique.

I haven't looked all the way through it, but this looks a good read <"The history of hydroponics">.

cheers Darrel
 
How about some sliding panels hanging from the ceiling
h20_hang.png

I have these on my tank to block out excess light. I can just slide one half over the other to get to the tank or just take both away for full acces. Mine are freehanging on the underside ( mostly because ceiling and floor aren't paralel apparently) So i bought the top rails and some plywood sheets
 
Edvet said:
How about some sliding panels hanging from the ceiling
h20_hang.png

I have these on my tank to block out excess light. I can just slide one half over the other to get to the tank or just take both away for full acces. Mine are freehanging on the underside ( mostly because ceiling and floor aren't paralel apparently) So i bought the top rails and some plywood sheets
Click to expand...

Thats a great solution and its giving me ideas.
But I woouldnt want to do it, as it will make the room feel even smaller.

Thanks
Fil
 
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